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Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

arstechnica.com

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Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#151

Post by ianstallings »

coldtea wrote: post #148
ianstallings wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HTML5 and all the surrounding technology is very exciting IMHO. They have the best tools and are quicker to adapt new techniques because of they get to work with a net (the fact that they can rollback quickly if needed). I get a little jealous when I see how quickly they can get something up and running that would take me a few days.

Compared to Cocoa Touch? I've worked with both and I can say this is just a case of "the grass is greener". Nothing "exciting" about HTML5 and the Web for people well versed in a mobile framework. The most interesting things are re-inventions of the wheel, only more hacky and less performant. Plus, since you can use web views in your native mobile app, there's literary nothing (technologically-wise) you can achieve w…

Yea I tend to agree on a lot of those points. I'm currently working on a native application that does heavy AV compositing and there is no way that HTML5 solution would be as capable.

Mainly the pain points are on the API and the legacy nature of it, and the surrounding crappy tools. I see cool IDEs, testing frameworks, scaffolding/bootstrapping sets and I can only be a little jealous. Sure we have our share, but it's a small slice of where the majority of effort is in the web world.

My hope, crossing fingers, is that one day HTML apps will truly be able to compete across all facets and access native functionality with the same performance as native platforms. Will this ever be the case? I can only hope.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#152

Post by grandinj »

robomartin wrote: post #107

I went to disabled iCloud on one of my Macs and I got this warning: "If you turn off Documents and Data, all documents stored in iCloud will be deleted from this Mac" Let's get past the jaw-to-the-floor, how-dare-you, !!!$$%#$## moment. They are morons and don't respect your data. So, how do you figure out just what is in iCloud? I don't see an easy iCloud viewing option in Finder. Doing some digging this is what I f…

You are not parsing the message correctly. It says nothing about deleting data from your other devices.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#153

Post by gdubs »

jemeshsu wrote: post #115
gdubs wrote: post #75

Core Data now provides NSIncremental store, which lets you use any web API as your persistent data store. It's possible to roll your own alternative to iCloud in this way, if you choose.

Core Data + NSIncremental store with a web api backend does not solve the problem of offline sync. It is possible to roll your own, its hard to get it right. It is complicated by iOS restriction of not able to run your own daemon. But then if I have the resource to roll my own then I would not complain about Apple. Dropbox does not come close as alternative. Dropbox as of now is file-based sync. Core Data iCloud sync…

Very true. The pain point seems to be largely the database merges; it's possible to roll your own db while using iCloud mainly as a key/value store for synching user preferences and status between devices. This is particularly useful if you support more than just apple devices...

Edit: regarding offline sync (which I didn't address) something like AFIncremental store is a good example of how a local persistent store can be maintained in tandem with the online store.

(But, as you say, non- trivial and hard to get right.)

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#154

Post by Terretta »

saosebastiao wrote: post #105
Terretta wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone can't use an iPhone because they're juggling Apple IDs? First, it supports multiple IDs, the limit is one ID per storefront or sync. Second, if this isn't about multiple IDs but about multiple addresses for a single ID, and if you don't like it supporting the old addresses, go to http://appleid.apple.com and manage them. You can update, edit, and remove old email addresses, decide what your primary one is, et…

She doesn't use multiple IDs. She only uses one. But in order to make things work, she has tried everything in the book, including trying to sign into her old account when this stupid bug pops up. And no, she can't use the phone as it was advertised. She has multiple apps that use iCloud for storage, and every time this happens, she just stops using the apps, as it can literally take hours of trying before she can su…

> She doesn't use multiple IDs. But... trying to sign into her old account...

Sounds like more than one. She needs to quit using the phone with "old" IDs, she's confusing herself and the device.

Get logged into https://appleid.apple.com/ and get it sorted out there. If you can't log into that, get on phone with Apple support until you can. As long as you didn't two step auth it, the phone support can and will help.

I'm not trying to debate, btw, I'm trying to legitimately help. Like most of us here, we end up being the support person for our family's devices, and I have seen people get themselves in a jam w/ the ID before. Clearly defining the Primary Apple ID won't be resolved until it's clearly resolved in the web interface.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#155

Post by taligent »

raverbashing wrote: post #49
dpratt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that a plurality of Google's backend is built in Java, right? I know it's fashionable to hate on Java, for a lot of good reasons, but I think it's naive to dismiss the power of the platform itself. We may all have (completely valid) complaints about the outdated and verbose syntax of the language, but the actual JVM itself is fantastic. There are more scalable, fault-tolerant, high performance Java system…

"You realize that a plurality of Google's backend is built in Java, right?" Yes, I know. The problem is not Java directly. Reread what I wrote Google has the infrastructure and resources to make Java work for them at their size. Because they have whole teams dedicated to build their infrastructure (FS, storage, etc) Apple has to optimize their resources. They're not going to rebuild what Google did and I'm not seeing…

Apple uses both Cassandra and Hadoop internally.

And this NIH mentality you've invented is simply not true. You are just confused and probably need to lie down for a bit.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#156

Post by taligent »

raverbashing wrote: post #143
mbell wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're not going to rebuild what Google did and I'm not seeing them using, I don't know: Cassandra, Hadoop, etc There is a non-zero amount of irony in your bashing of Java then picking out two projects that apple isn't using, but you apparently think they should but using, which are both written in Java.

I am not bashing Java and I know what these are built on, but apparently no one read what I wrote and stopped reading at 'Java' I am saying is that probably Apple has a NIH mentality with regards to infrastructure and thus are trying to reinvent things like that. And of course, reinventing these in pure Java takes more time than using Go, for example.

There is no evidence that Go delivers projects quicker than Java.

And Go being so early in its life obviously lacks the wide array of third party libraries that Java does.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#157

Post by Terretta »

joenathan wrote: post #131
Terretta wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an owner of a Galaxy Nexus (TMobile) running the latest Jellybean, I suspect you've forgotten what it's like to pick the device up for the first time, if you claim the user experience is as polished for "normal" (non-tech) people. You also would be alone among the crowd of Android journalists who love the OS and talk about how each release is more polished, closing the UX gap. Skim any honest pro Android site for…

From what you describe you have a defective phone, you should get it replaced, your experience with your phone freezing isn't typical at all. My Nexus 4 has never once froze on me. Also the Play Store has a default option called "auto add widget"[1] that adds a shortcut to your home screen of any newly installed app, I personally hate that default behavior and always uncheck that option. Is that all you could come up…

> Is that all you could come up with for UX annoyances?

Nope, but I refuse to be trolled by someone suggesting there aren't any. Just because YOU may not be annoyed, does not mean there isn't consensus that it still has a ways to go.

My phone didn't freeze when swiping the apps pages. Only the UI for swiping the apps pages froze. The rest of the phone, and all other running apps, are fine. That's not a defective phone. That's defective software.

Note that I never said Android Jellybean wasn't first class. I said if the woman is ready to dump a phone over trying to use an old account ID, she's going to have bigger problems with other operating systems which are not yet as polished.

“... A related issue is that the iOS interface is simply cleaner and more user-friendly than any Android interface I'd yet to see. One of Apple's slogans is "It just works." Well, actually sometimes it doesn't work. iTunes, for example, has been annoying me for years now. But, when it comes to device interfaces, iOS does just work. Android implementations, far too often, doesn't.“

“So, yes, Android does more today than Apple's iOS promises to do tomorrow, but that's only part of the story. The full story includes that iOS is very polished and very closed, while Android is somewhat messy and very open.”

— http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/android-already-offers...

If you cannot imagine any UX annoyances, then most likely you fall into the “Android fans can be blind to its faults just as much as the most besotted Apple fan” camp.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#158

Post by raverbashing »

taligent wrote: post #156
raverbashing wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not bashing Java and I know what these are built on, but apparently no one read what I wrote and stopped reading at 'Java' I am saying is that probably Apple has a NIH mentality with regards to infrastructure and thus are trying to reinvent things like that. And of course, reinventing these in pure Java takes more time than using Go, for example.

There is no evidence that Go delivers projects quicker than Java. And Go being so early in its life obviously lacks the wide array of third party libraries that Java does.

No? Ok, keep telling you that

But the lack of libraries can be a showstopper sometimes

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#159

Post by stevenwei »

tvon wrote: post #92
ianstallings wrote: post #38

Frustrated with just iCloud? No I'd go further. I'm frustrated with the whole iOS platform. It's like writing an app in the 1990s. Sure it works. But it's painful as hell. So much so that I've decided this latest project on iOS was probably my last unless something big changes. And just for the record I have a few flagship apps in the app store with millions of active users and I've worked quite extensively with the…

Well, I don't really agree, but I will say that the iOS testing world has a lot of catch-up to do. Ruby developers (as an example) have much, much, much better testing tools. There is no doubt about that. The hoops you have to jump through to create acceptance tests are quite annoying, especially when you can't even test UIAlertViews, or basic things like Airplane Mode...

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Testing GUI code has always been a lot trickier than testing backend code, and iOS apps tend to be GUI-oriented while Ruby projects tend to be backend-oriented.

That's not to say that the iOS testing tools are great, but I've never had a particularly pleasant time testing GUI code on any platform.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#160

Post by druiid »

ianstallings wrote: post #85
jawngee wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And just for the record I have a few flagship apps in the app store with millions of active users Source please. because your toolset is from yesterday and their's is from tomorrow This is why I don't believe your first point without sources to verify. Eclipse+Android SDK is hardly from tomorrow. Windows 8 possibly. What else does that leave? Nada.

Oh okay so because I think the toolset is crap you want to call me out. No problem. Here's two that have over a million users below. Oprah Magazine (1M+ subscribers): https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/o-oprah-magazine-archive-dec... Esquire Magazine (1M+ subscribers): https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/esquire-magazine/id433020707... Those are just two that I have built. I have an enterprise platform that I architected fr…

Hey man, not sure how worried about your info getting out there, but generally when people troll for 'proof' here I ignore it. Essentially it's just one more avenue for people to use against you, especially in regards to linking a name/identity to work and I generally (personally) try to keep them separate. Your choice, just something to think about... also, don't feed the trolls etc ;)
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