[deleted]
Web Framework Benchmarks
281–290 of 415 posts
Re: Web Framework Benchmarks
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
Preface: This post is going to come across as a Rails apologist piece, but please read the entire thing before you reach a conclusion. Please also consider that you could apply these same arguments to just about any of the high-level language based frameworks on the list. I use Ruby on Rails in my comparisons, but I'm a huge fan of Node.js, Python/Django, and Go. I fully respect the JVM family of languages as well. I…
That's a very detailed and thoughtful response. You make some valid points. Maybe I'll try to craft some more complicated benchmarks that replicate normal CRUD operations found in most webapps.
That's kind of missing the point. In statistics, there exists something called confounding variables. Confounding variables are factors that affect your outcome, but are hidden, or are outside your control. As your example becomes more complex the opportunity for confounding to impact your result goes up significantly.
I believe the multi-query database access test is actually a good example of a "complex enough" test, but not too susceptible to confounding. In this test, we see that Rails isn't so far behind.
Basing your choice of framework on speed alone is a pretty bad idea. When you select a framework, you need to optimize for success, and the factors that determine the success of a project are often less related to the speed of a framework and more related to the availability of talent and good tools.
That's not to say you should ignore speed entirely, but that you have to weight your factors. There is a tendency to believe that you will need rofflescale when you really won't. Keep that in mind when you're weighting your factors.
Re: Web Framework Benchmarks
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's wrong with that guy?
He's a fantastic software engineer but he is _very_ abrasive. I've read some of his posts claiming he would fight some other developer in person at a conference if he steps up. He would rent out a ring and he would put his yellow belt to practice. Really, I'm not making this up. He sounds like a jerk to work with.
It seems like some context might be missing here.
Re: Web Framework Benchmarks
#284Where is ASP.Net MVC? Odd that you list obscure frameworks like Wicket and leave out one of The Big Four frameworks. (The big four in my book are: ASP.Net MVC, Rails, Django and CakePHP)
We'd love to have ASP.Net MVC included. One minor gotcha is that to do it justice, we'd need to spin up a Windows EC2 instance and figure out how to script that. It's on our to-do list! We did briefly test ASP.Net on Mono (see another comment in this thread) but didn't include it since we didn't believe that qualifies as a "production" grade ASP.Net MVC deployment.
Just use AppHarbor.
Re: Web Framework Benchmarks
#285Where is ASP.Net MVC? Odd that you list obscure frameworks like Wicket and leave out one of The Big Four frameworks. (The big four in my book are: ASP.Net MVC, Rails, Django and CakePHP)
I came here to say this. I don't understand why some of the development community likes to act like .Net doesn't exist.... It pains me to see charts and reporting done like this while leaving out my favorite framework.
Since these benchmarks are so wide-ranging, I agree. But that means setting up an entire new testbed on Windows, and then trying to make it comparable to the other platform testbed; possibly tuning. You need a Windows expert to do this. My question is, why aren't Windows experts setting these up?
Re: Web Framework Benchmarks
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's a quick version of the framework optimization index. Higher is better (ratio of framework performance to raw platform performance, multiplied by 100 for scale): Framework Framework Index Gemini 87.88 Vert.x 76.29 Express 68.85 Sinatra-Ruby 67.88 WebGo 51.08 Compojure 45.69 Rails-Ruby 31.75 Wicket 29.33 Rails-Jruby 20.09 Play 18.02 Sinatra-Jruby 15.96 Tapestry 13.57 Spring 13.48 Grails 7.11 Cake 1.17
It's funny you should put this together because in an earlier draft of this blog entry I had created a tongue-in-cheek unit to express the average cost per additional line of code. Based on our Cake PHP numbers, I wanted to describe PHP as having the highest average cost per line of code. But we dropped this because I felt it ultimately wasn't fair to say that based on the limited data we had and it could be easily i…
Good thing you opted against sensational journalism.
About the cost per additional line of code for PHP, it mainly comes from not having an opcode cache and having to load and interpret files on every visit. mod_php was and will always be trash. I commented earlier about it too.
In case of Ruby, and talking about Rails, even when using Passenger, the rails app is cached via a spawn server. That's not the case with PHP.
Similarly, Python has opcode cache built-in (.pyc files). Also, I am not sure about gunicorn but others do keep app files in-memory.
Servlet does the same about keeps apps in memory. You get the idea.
Frameworks definitely have an impact but it's very hard for one person to know the right configuration for every language. You had done some good work there, but it will take a lot of contributions before the benchmark suite becomes fair for every language/framework.
Re: Web Framework Benchmarks
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
He's a fantastic software engineer but he is _very_ abrasive. I've read some of his posts claiming he would fight some other developer in person at a conference if he steps up. He would rent out a ring and he would put his yellow belt to practice. Really, I'm not making this up. He sounds like a jerk to work with.
It seems like some context might be missing here.
Context: http://web.archive.org/web/20080103072111/http://www.zedshaw...
" I mean business when I say I’ll take anyone on who wants to fight me. You think you can take me, I’ll pay to rent a boxing ring and beat your fucking ass legally. Remember that I’ve studied enough martial arts to be deadly even though I’m old, and I don’t give a fuck if I kick your mother fucking ass or you kick mine. You don’t like what I’ve said, then write something in reply but fuck you if you think you’re gonna talk to me like you can hurt me."
Re: Web Framework Benchmarks
#288Cake was an interesting choice for a PHP framework to test. I wonder why they didn't choose Symfony, which is arguably the leading PHP framework.
Zend and Symfony are probably the leading OO MVC frameworks for PHP. I'd also like to see a "light" framework meant for building APIs, like Slim, for instance.
Yes, I'd definitely like to see Slim tested as a light framework. People keep mentioning Silex as a "light" framework, but I've found it to be almost as heavy as Symfony2 (which isn't much of a surprise considering it's just Symfony2 components strapped together).
Re: Web Framework Benchmarks
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's wrong with that guy?
He's a fantastic software engineer but he is _very_ abrasive. I've read some of his posts claiming he would fight some other developer in person at a conference if he steps up. He would rent out a ring and he would put his yellow belt to practice. Really, I'm not making this up. He sounds like a jerk to work with.
He is actually a very nice person to be around and work with. Besides being professional and experienced he is also outspoken with a firm opinion.
You might think that's being a jerk, I think that's honest and reliable.
Re: Web Framework Benchmarks
#290Why Play benchmark is running on Resin? Shouldn't it be directly on top of Netty?