Bitcoin Now Worth $1B • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#51

Post by tatsuke95 » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:37 PM UTC

oleganza wrote: post #45

tatsuke95 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing value of currency promotes hoarding, when in fact, bit coin should be promoting spending. If everyone's intention is to buy and hold bit coins,they are useless as currency and become a speculative asset.

When everyone has hoarded some bitcoins they can trade them for goods any time they run out of fiat cash or fiat cash is stolen/diluted/frozen, or some arbitrary controls are imposed (e.g. sending money to another country is not easy or cheap). The instant mobility is the true value of "hoarded" bitcoins.

Everyone can't hoard bit coins, that's the point. Unless you are mining them, which is a small portion of the market I assume, you are buying them from another person. Ie someone else has decided to sell.

I get bit coin, I think it's interesting and useful as an alternative currency. But any hope that it is going to upend USD in any meaningful way is wasted. Dollars are far, far ahead in value, convenience and redeemability. And I don't see that changing anytime soon- at least not soon enough to get in on the speculation.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#52

Post by cel » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:38 PM UTC

noname123 wrote: post #15

Anyone know if there is a good bitcoin futures/options market with good liquidity? The vol on this asset class is out of this world and given that it's so new, pricing on these things must be so out of wack that it'll be good to exploit. Only if there's a good futures exchange like Mt.Gox that's very very authoritative. And also important for the bitcoin infrastructure, that way merchants will take bitcoins for less…

ICBIT has futures trading. https://icbit.se/

Bitfinex allows margin trading and lending. https://bitfinex.com/

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#53

Post by waterlesscloud » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:42 PM UTC

tatsuke95 wrote: post #28

jamespitts wrote: post #21

By design, the supply of new bitcoins is slowing down. If there continues to be utility for people to use bitcoins, and this usage is increasing, the value of an individual bitcoin vs. other currencies will increase (averaging out speculative action). This pattern will very likely continue until an alternative is found. Perhaps the alternative will simply be for holders to return to national currencies, perhaps it wi…

Increasing value of currency promotes hoarding, when in fact, bit coin should be promoting spending. If everyone's intention is to buy and hold bit coins,they are useless as currency and become a speculative asset.

This is the popular wisdom, but I'm not sure it's the whole story.

There's been a fair amount of cashing out the last few weeks, which has the effect of transferring coins from pre-existing large hoards to new, smaller hoards. That's a good thing overall, I think.

The next step is to get those smaller hoards spending, that's the trick.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#54

Post by knowaveragejoe » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:44 PM UTC

tatsuke95 wrote: post #42

oleganza wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or until people realise that many around them already have BTC or ready to accept it as payment. Then who needs dollars?

I think you seriously underestimate the demand and use of dollars.

This. Wordpress, Reddit, even Expensify are but a glimmer of how much trade goes on with dollars in the world.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#55

Post by knowaveragejoe » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:47 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #50

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is a misinformed question, but isn't the reason anyone is adopting it at all due to the fact they can later convert it back into actual currency?

That is likely why they are buying it. But if you are business who takes money over the internet and is sick of the banking BS and you notice that there are a lot of people out there holding these strange coins which seem to have a rising value..

It has a rising value because you can convert it back into dollars. It's also worth pointing out that same banking BS protects not only often protects their business but their customers as well... are there bitcoin "banking" services that provide that same level of service to businesses? With that in mind, are there any serious businesses that exclusively accept bitcoins?

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#56

Post by nullc » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:49 PM UTC

whackedspinach wrote: post #9

porter wrote: post #5

This will be a fun ride until governments ban it.

That worked out so well when they banned copyright infringement.

An illicitly copied movie is still fun to watch— even if none of your friends watch illicitly copied movies.

Illicit money? Thats _far_ less useful. Money like goods get their value from being accepted as valuable by large numbers of people.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#57

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:49 PM UTC

niggler wrote: post #44

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is a misinformed question, but isn't the reason anyone is adopting it at all due to the fact they can later convert it back into actual currency?

"they can later convert it back into actual currency?" Or final goods. Silk Road gives a final good endpoint for BTC

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#58

Post by waterlesscloud » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:50 PM UTC

There have been some strong signs of an inflection point in the last couple of weeks.

The FinCEN guidance was a major step forward for Bitcoin, allowing companies to start taking Bitcoin as a serious option.

For example, see this announcement today, from a company that processes payments for local governments. They plan to offer bitcoin acceptance to those governments for all sorts of online payments. You might soon be able to pay local taxes using bitcoin!

http://www2.egovlink.com/press-release-bitcoin.cfm

They directly state this is a result of FinCEN's statements. The floodgates may be opening.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#59

Post by knowaveragejoe » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:54 PM UTC

niggler wrote: post #44

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is a misinformed question, but isn't the reason anyone is adopting it at all due to the fact they can later convert it back into actual currency?

"they can later convert it back into actual currency?" Or final goods. Silk Road gives a final good endpoint for BTC

SR sure transits a large amount of btc, but what do you think the sellers are doing with the incoming bitcoins?

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#60

Post by jiggy2011 » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:56 PM UTC

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #55

jiggy2011 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is likely why they are buying it. But if you are business who takes money over the internet and is sick of the banking BS and you notice that there are a lot of people out there holding these strange coins which seem to have a rising value..

It has a rising value because you can convert it back into dollars. It's also worth pointing out that same banking BS protects not only often protects their business but their customers as well... are there bitcoin "banking" services that provide that same level of service to businesses? With that in mind, are there any serious businesses that exclusively accept bitcoins?

If it has a rising value then it's in your interest to hold at least some of it unless you think it's about to crash.

If you are a merchant then the easiest way to start holding it is to start accepting payments with it, which is easy enough to do especially if there are enough people holding it already.

At that point it has value not just because you can convert it , but because you can buy stuff with it.