Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up • Hacker News Board

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#81

Post by imissmyjuno » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:27 PM UTC

pifflesnort wrote: post #77

seivan wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just hope people can differentiate between Core Data and iCloud from both your comment and the article.Core Data isn't broken. It might be somewhat magical, but it's not broken.

I think there's a good argument for it being broken: 1) Core Data objects are not NSObject objects. You can't treat them remotely like normal objects: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/... 2) Core Data requires making your model mutable, and spreading dependencies on Core Data's abnormal objects throughout your entire code base. 3) Since the abnormal objects are spread throughout your code,…

I don't know anything about Core Data so pardon my ignorance. How has Apple marketed Core Data? I'm asking because the issues you've mentioned are solved well by SQLite, but perhaps that's because Core Data wasn't designed to be used in anything but the simplest use cases? That tends to happen with solutions that are magical.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#82

Post by lake_rogue » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:28 PM UTC

kybernetyk wrote: post #41

potatolicious wrote: post #5

I've worked with iCloud in conjunction with Core Data. It's as broken as the article describes, and in fact has gotten worse over time. No one really fully knows WTF is going with iCloud - documentation is basically nonexistent, support unavailable, implementation broken in trivial ways, and error messages inscrutable. I was at an Mac/iOS conference recently where the Core Data iCloud talk morphed from a standard tal…

After seeing the fate of mac.com and me.com I didn't even consider using iCloud for 'cloud storage'/sync for our Mac app. (We went with Dropbox). Apple has a long story of half-finished features they try to force onto developers and users. And if that doesn't work the technology gets killed off. The only downside of not using shiny but questionable new features is that your app won't get featured in the App Store.

Perhaps rather than killing the technology off this time they tried to get rid of the person in charge of the technology.

Of course, if this isn't fixed soon...

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#83

Post by Terretta » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:29 PM UTC

saosebastiao wrote: post #20

Terretta wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If trying to juggle more than one apple ID in the same storefront is breaking the camel's back, she's in for a world of soul crushing disappointment with any less UX polished product -- which is pretty much all the rest of them.

With my much less polished Android UI, at least I can use my phone.

Someone can't use an iPhone because they're juggling Apple IDs?

First, it supports multiple IDs, the limit is one ID per storefront or sync.

Second, if this isn't about multiple IDs but about multiple addresses for a single ID, and if you don't like it supporting the old addresses, go to http://appleid.apple.com and manage them. You can update, edit, and remove old email addresses, decide what your primary one is, etc. I find it helpful to ensure 100% of all services across all devices are using the same exact ID aka email address; one way to enforce this is to be sure your appleID account only has one listed.

On the other hand, if she has inadvertently created multiple IDs over the years, she needs to either settle on one ID per service (my wife has one for music, one for apps, one for iCloud), or she needs to ditch the extra ones and standardize on a single one.

To tell if they're the same or multiple accounts, again, go to http://appleid.apple.com/ and log in with the one you think is the master, be sure the others are listed. If not, they're separate IDs.

None of this stops her from using her phone. Conveniently, all these phones fine with or without the ID.

FWIW, on my Galaxy Nexus I find managing multiple Google Accounts and cloud data sync more precarious. Sure, there's an easy radio button to pick accounts in the Google Play store, for example, but once I made sure I'm using the same ID across devices I've never had a bookmarks, contacts, calendar, or messages sync issue with iCloud, while I am having to go in and reset sync settings for bookmarks, contacts, etc., every couple weeks on Jellybean. And I usually don't know the sync is broken again until I notice something's missing, check sync settings, and see the broken sync alert.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#84

Post by imissmyjuno » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:32 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #31

I am one of those developers who don't jump on the bandwagon right away. Experience has taught me to be very cautious. It also comes from doing a ton of work on mission-critical systems where you don't do stuff like install the latest software updates without massive testing on off-line systems. Yes, sometimes I miss out on really neat developments. iCloud is one of those cases where I am glad for being a slow adopte…

The only thing I can think of is to set up contact, calendar etc. sync to Google (via ActiveSync or otherwise). Calendars won't magically transfer over since they're assigned to a particular calendar, on iCloud in your case, but contacts should get pushed to Google. That'll at least give you a backup of your contacts, and setting up the other devices the same way should sync them all up.

Can anyone else chime in? Does this sound reasonable? I've had everything on my iPhone synced up to Google services for about 4 years now and it's never caused any issues.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#85

Post by ianstallings » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:32 PM UTC

jawngee wrote: post #76

ianstallings wrote: post #38

Frustrated with just iCloud? No I'd go further. I'm frustrated with the whole iOS platform. It's like writing an app in the 1990s. Sure it works. But it's painful as hell. So much so that I've decided this latest project on iOS was probably my last unless something big changes. And just for the record I have a few flagship apps in the app store with millions of active users and I've worked quite extensively with the…

And just for the record I have a few flagship apps in the app store with millions of active users Source please. because your toolset is from yesterday and their's is from tomorrow This is why I don't believe your first point without sources to verify. Eclipse+Android SDK is hardly from tomorrow. Windows 8 possibly. What else does that leave? Nada.

Oh okay so because I think the toolset is crap you want to call me out. No problem. Here's two that have over a million users below.

Oprah Magazine (1M+ subscribers): https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/o-oprah-magazine-archive-dec...

Esquire Magazine (1M+ subscribers): https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/esquire-magazine/id433020707...

Those are just two that I have built. I have an enterprise platform that I architected from the ground up that companies like pfizer use for it's whole workforce. I have ones written for Disney, Hearst, GE, MaryKay, Hallmark, Sesame Street, etc, etc. The one I'm building now is ready to scale to ~5M users right out of the gate and I believe we will succeed.

Now put your apps up and let me pick through them and tell you why you're wrong because I just don't believe your work is credible.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#86

Post by ianstallings » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:34 PM UTC

JonnieCache wrote: post #55

ianstallings wrote: post #38

Frustrated with just iCloud? No I'd go further. I'm frustrated with the whole iOS platform. It's like writing an app in the 1990s. Sure it works. But it's painful as hell. So much so that I've decided this latest project on iOS was probably my last unless something big changes. And just for the record I have a few flagship apps in the app store with millions of active users and I've worked quite extensively with the…

What is this toolset of tomorrow your peers are using to blow past you, if you don't mind me asking?

I mainly mean my web-developer peers. Their toolsets are moving so rapidly that I see them surpassing us in the next 2-3 years unless we make some huge improvements. Just my opinion.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#87

Post by rbritton » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:35 PM UTC

pifflesnort wrote: post #77

seivan wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just hope people can differentiate between Core Data and iCloud from both your comment and the article.Core Data isn't broken. It might be somewhat magical, but it's not broken.

I think there's a good argument for it being broken: 1) Core Data objects are not NSObject objects. You can't treat them remotely like normal objects: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/... 2) Core Data requires making your model mutable, and spreading dependencies on Core Data's abnormal objects throughout your entire code base. 3) Since the abnormal objects are spread throughout your code,…

Adding on to your #3, concurrency became MUCH, MUCH easier in iOS 5. Core Data gained the concept of a background/main thread context and the two methods -performBlock: and -performBlockAndWait:. See: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/ipad/#documentation/... and http://www.cocoanetics.com/2012/07/multi-context-coredata/

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#88

Post by qdog » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:37 PM UTC

jawngee wrote: post #76

ianstallings wrote: post #38

Frustrated with just iCloud? No I'd go further. I'm frustrated with the whole iOS platform. It's like writing an app in the 1990s. Sure it works. But it's painful as hell. So much so that I've decided this latest project on iOS was probably my last unless something big changes. And just for the record I have a few flagship apps in the app store with millions of active users and I've worked quite extensively with the…

And just for the record I have a few flagship apps in the app store with millions of active users Source please. because your toolset is from yesterday and their's is from tomorrow This is why I don't believe your first point without sources to verify. Eclipse+Android SDK is hardly from tomorrow. Windows 8 possibly. What else does that leave? Nada.

Maybe he means Ubuntu for mobile? I kid, I kid!

Having started working on Android recently, if Android is tomorrow, the future sure is dystopian.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#89

Post by r00fus » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:38 PM UTC

saosebastiao wrote: post #15

larrik wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the whole article, and I read all the HN comments (so far), but I still have no idea what the "unexpected appleID problem" is. Care to explain, for the unintiated like me?

When it prompts you to log in, it will pull up your appleID for you, but it gets it wrong. It will pull up some random other appleID...sometimes an old one you created for iTunes using a hotmail account you haven't checked since 2004, but sometimes a completely random other person's appleID. The authentication is unpredictable too...my wife has successfully signed on to her current account using an old password and s…

Sign on to what? iCloud? Is there a forum thread or discussion somewhere that actually describes this in more details?

I've never gotten this before.

Re: Frustrated with iCloud, Apple’s developer community speaks up

#90

Post by mayop100 » Thu, Mar 28, 2013, 4:41 PM UTC

(Shameless plug) Firebase is an alternative to iCloud for many apps. It's built as a database, rather than a file store, so it's ideal for storing structured data. Conflict resolution is something we've been thinking hard about from day 1, and we think we have a pretty solid story [1].

We launched native iOS support a few weeks ago [2]. You can also access your data from JavaScript or from a REST API. Android and other platforms are in the works. We're a platform-independent service, and since you (the developer) is paying for the storage, we have the right incentives to give you maximum access to your data (unlike iCloud), and a good developer experience.

We've also put a ton of work into making it easy to learn and easy to use. See, for example, our quick tutorial [3].

If you've used Firebase as a substitute for iCloud, we'd appreciate your thoughts in the comments!

1. https://www.firebase.com/docs/transactions.html

2. https://www.firebase.com/blog/2013-03-20-new-firebase-ios-sd...

3. https://www.firebase.com/tutorial/