Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rackspace Cloud Servers runs on OpenStack. It seems to work pretty well for them.
I would expect that it maybe heavily custom/staffed-up-to-be-configured-for-their-infra I.E. - it likely didn't just work pretty well for them out of the box. There is a difference between using a base technology which requires you have FTEs on staff to maintain it and grabbing an off-the-shelf app to help run your systems.
Paypal To Drop VMware From 80,000 Servers and Replace It With OpenStack
101–110 of 128 posts
Re: Paypal To Drop VMware From 80,000 Servers and Replace It With OpenStack
#102I think this only solves the cost problem. VMware is damn expensive for what it is. I'm not really a fan of virtualization myself. We canned it at our organisation a couple of years ago. We had 30 ESX/vSphere managed hosts across 3 data centers which hosted app servers, web front end servers, virtual load balancers and some other minor infrastructure. The final straw was the upgrade costs. Not only that we had proble…
Re: Paypal To Drop VMware From 80,000 Servers and Replace It With OpenStack
#103I think VMWare is going to be in some trouble in the next few years. A lot of opensource projects are picking up speed. One of my favorites, oVirt ( http://www.ovirt.org ) especially. Red Hat mainly runs the project, and is pretty much the open source version of RHEV.
Re: Paypal To Drop VMware From 80,000 Servers and Replace It With OpenStack
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its a shit tool that creates issues and costs fuckwads of cash. That is it. We understand it. The numbers sold are not the numbers gained. The entire infrastructure deployment was planned around virtualization, DC failover and resilience using VMware's guidelines and solutions (VMware were even paid to consult on this). It never delivered and doubled our administrative and licensing overhead.
VMWare sales from what I have heard, has a history of over-selling, over-promising and ultimately getting people to spend a crap-ton of money on their products. Honestly I have to say, it sounds a bit like you guys got taken for a ride. I'd suggest sitting back, relaxing and taking a look at what other VM options there are out there, some of which don't have license fees attached to them. When I first deployed virtua…
Re: Paypal To Drop VMware From 80,000 Servers and Replace It With OpenStack
#105Re: Paypal To Drop VMware From 80,000 Servers and Replace It With OpenStack
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its definitely 20-30% for realistic workloads using VM based tech on top I.e. CLR/JVM or a database engine which is realistic. This is on top of VMware. I can't speak for Xen. The outcome is pretty grim.
Exactly. I often see claims of 5-10%, but I've yet to see any reliable set of benchmarks done with those results. Too often, people are using dd and testing throughput instead of actual IOPS. Even the benchmarks that show 20%+ tend to be skewed in favour of virtualization, as they tend to be run with a single VM instead of multiple VM's. Even if there was 0% performance penalty from virtualization, you'd still see su…
Jump to the results section. The more relevant bullets here are 'single guest' (either virtio or using direct mapping).
Highlights (or lowlights, depending on your perspective): kernbench - 9.5% overhead SPECjbb - 7.6% overhead
I don't agree with your point about suboptimal allocation of hardware resources. Virtualization does not require you to divide a machine in a different way than processes do (you could easily have one VM consume nearly all CPU cycles, one consuming nearly all I/O capacity, etc.) IMO, the key difference is that virtualization lets you easier establish hard, enforceable limits and concrete policies around resource usage (not to mention the ability to account for usage across all kinds of different applications and users). And, it lets you do that for arbitrary applications on arbitrary operating systems. So users don't have to write to one particular framework/language/runtime/OS whatever. That's all pretty important for large scale.
[1] http://static.usenix.org/event/osdi10/tech/slides/ben-yehuda...
Re: Paypal To Drop VMware From 80,000 Servers and Replace It With OpenStack
#107I think this only solves the cost problem. VMware is damn expensive for what it is. I'm not really a fan of virtualization myself. We canned it at our organisation a couple of years ago. We had 30 ESX/vSphere managed hosts across 3 data centers which hosted app servers, web front end servers, virtual load balancers and some other minor infrastructure. The final straw was the upgrade costs. Not only that we had proble…
> I can understand that virtualization is useful when your resource requirement is less than one machine but above that, I doubt there are any real benefits. It's snake oil. Tell that to Netflix - or any of AWS' customers, really.
Re: Paypal To Drop VMware From 80,000 Servers and Replace It With OpenStack
#108What's wrong with VMware? Why would someone not choose VWware over something else?
In my experience, VMWare is great and has a nice GUI, which lead to early adoption. BUT: it has licensing fees for each copy. This can be a big bummer for companies like PayPal that have a fleet of servers - much easier to replace to replace all the VMWare installs and get rid of licensing costs to switch to an open-source VM solution. At the same time, I could be that OpenStack's API is superior to VMWare's. With a…
Re: Paypal To Drop VMware From 80,000 Servers and Replace It With OpenStack
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. I often see claims of 5-10%, but I've yet to see any reliable set of benchmarks done with those results. Too often, people are using dd and testing throughput instead of actual IOPS. Even the benchmarks that show 20%+ tend to be skewed in favour of virtualization, as they tend to be run with a single VM instead of multiple VM's. Even if there was 0% performance penalty from virtualization, you'd still see su…
Here [1] is a great paper about nested virutalization for KVM. This combines hardware capabilities with software tricks to allow running multiple levels of VMMs. It may not have intense IOPs testing but it's got a couple benchmarks that would be representative of real-world workloads. Keep in mind that this paper was published in 2010 and virtualization performance has been on a dramatic rise the last several years.…
Is there a system that would allow for mapping part of an IO device (such as a block range or a LUN) to a guest when multiple guests are running with the same level of overhead?
Re: Paypal To Drop VMware From 80,000 Servers and Replace It With OpenStack
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here [1] is a great paper about nested virutalization for KVM. This combines hardware capabilities with software tricks to allow running multiple levels of VMMs. It may not have intense IOPs testing but it's got a couple benchmarks that would be representative of real-world workloads. Keep in mind that this paper was published in 2010 and virtualization performance has been on a dramatic rise the last several years.…
What distinction does KVM or the kernel make for a single guest? Is there a system that would allow for mapping part of an IO device (such as a block range or a LUN) to a guest when multiple guests are running with the same level of overhead?
The distinction being made here isn't for a single guest or multiple guests, it's for a single guest OS or nested guests (i.e. a VM running another VM). To expose the hardware virtualization extensions to the guest VMM, then they must be emulated by the privileged domain (host). There are software tricks that allow this emulation to happen pretty efficiently (and map an arbitrary level of guests onto the single level provided by the actual hardware). It's not a common use-case, but for a few very specific things it's very useful.
There are a few different ways to map I/O devices directly into domains. Some definitely allow for part of an I/O device. For example, many new network devices support SR-IOV -- which effectively allows you to poke it and create new virtual devices (which may be constrainted in some way) which can be mapped directly into guests.