Live data from Hacker News

22 and no life

news.ycombinator.com

81–90 of 193 posts

Re: 22 and no life

#81
Honestly, probably one of the best things you could do is join the military. If you are tech savvy, then chances are that you can score high enough on the ASVAB (entry test) in order to get into a really high speed career field. I joined the Navy, became an arabic linguist, left after a few years, and got a programming job as a contractor for 102k/year. Here's the process you're looking at if you want to take a similar route:

1) See your local (you might have to travel a bit) recruiting station and ask to start the process in joining. I recommend the Navy of all branches, because I've worked with people of all the other branches and the Navy gives you the most potential to succeed long-term -- they are the only ones that promote the idea of cross-training, will burn away your outer weakness by some extremely crappy years of work ultimately making you a better person, and allow you more technological opportunities than any other branch.

2) Your recruiter will ask you about your past. This will include drug use, prior convictions, etc. Hopefully you don't have any felony charges, or you won't be able to join. There are waivers for various offenses, but some will preclude you from getting a security clearance job.

3) Take the ASVAB. It is an extremely simple test which tests very basic concepts that you should already have formed a mental model about if you're a halfway decent programmer. Example: This lamp post is 30 feet tall and casts a 50 foot shadow -- What is the hypotenuse? (That was a real question). There are also mechanical things (what type of wrench is this?) and basic english things. Score in the 80+ range (out of a possible 99...which I maxed out without breaking a sweat and I'm not a genius) and you can almost guarantee yourself a security clearance job.

4) Your recruiter will take you to a MEPS station. After they do a bunch of physical tests on you (normal physician tests like stripping you down and checking your parts), you will be taken to the most important leg of the journey -- the guy that will assign you your rating. If you did well on your ASVAB, this part will be a breeze, because he will mostly be interested in fitting you in to where you're comfortable. As a programmer, your goal is to get one of these ratings in order to get yourself into a job that can leverage your skills. Even though I was an arabic linguist, I was allowed to build unlimited amounts of tools in order to support missions, and that eventually just became my job. I was in the military and could come in to work whenever I wanted to and basically do whatever I wanted to. This is the exception more than the rule, however, but it's still a possibility if you have an excellent work ethic. The jobs that get you into said positions are: CTI, CTT, CTN, CTR, IT (secure). All of these will require a 6 year obligation (4 year + 2 year extension).

5) Boot camp. It was basically one of the more enjoyable periods of my life. Every day is mapped out on a bi-hourly basis about what you're going to be doing from the minute you get there to the minute you graduate. You can look on the schedule and see what you're going to be doing 2 hours and 4 weeks later, and that will be exactly what you'll be doing. The structure will allow you find out things about yourself and your capabilities which you might not be aware of. I had barely graduated high school (1.8 gpa) and had a couple months of work at subway, but the experience awakened a great motivation to succeed in me, and it just might do the same for you too.

6) A-School. Depending on the rating (job) you chose, this will be different. For the non-CTI jobs, you'll be going to lovely (sarcasm) Pensacola, FL. The experience is great, and it's a good stepping stone to re-introduce you back into the world after having everything taken away from you in boot camp. If you chose CTI then you'll be going to the Defense Language Institute (DLI). It's basically college, except you're paid to go. Would recommend.

7) C-School -- most likely still in Pensacola if you're a non-CTI, and if you're a CTI it will just be at your final duty station. This will be where you learn more advanced things, and will be influenced by your scores on tests in A school. The great part about this is that there's no homework since everything is classified, which is why I was able to do really well here. Only knowledge and practical ability matters (which is the common theme that you'll find in most of the Navy).

8) Final duty station. This can be many places around the world, but if you specifically want to program then you want to be stationed at an NSA facility. The NSA is the only government agency that really promotes people to think outside the box -- trust me, I've worked at all of the others. I never programmed anything for real until I went there, and there was a program we used where you had to add the number 9 to a calculation before entering it in. I asked "shouldn't the computer just do that?" and no matter how many trouble tickets we submitted, no one would resolve it. So, I asked the person who had created the program 20 years ago if I could modify the program to fix it -- he handed me the Perl cookbook and said go for it. That spawned an entire career. You'll find that people there, although odd, will be more open to change than anywhere else in the government.

Once you have 6 years in (which will be the minimum for a job like this), you'll be 28/29 with a lot of skills, experience, and a security clearance. You'll have met people working at various contracting companies that will hire you, or you can apply at various government agencies that will easily snatch you up.

About me: I started out as an EW (electronic warfare technician) tech which was 2 years of electronics schooling. I served on a ship for 2 years and cross-rated to CTI to learn arabic. After finishing 9 years total in the Navy, I collected a total of 62,000 dollars in bonus money. I left the Navy with no debt, a car, a lot of money in the bank, a 92k offer and a 102k offer and three full months of collecting my Navy paycheck after leaving (terminal pay). I took the higher job offer and worked that for a year, conceiving of, writing the requirements for, and building (by myself) a computer program that saved the government an estimated 3 million dollars (along with writing a bunch of piddly scripts and API's that have saved a few million more and continue to be used). I'm 29 now and have saved up enough money that I dont have to work for 2 years and can focus on bootstrapping my own startup. The Navy and my work ethic (and ability to save money) gave me that, and it can give it to you too.

If you'd like more information, message me and I'd be glad to help.

Re: 22 and no life

#82
I was in your situation about three years ago, and I'll tell you what I did. I found a startup company that was willing to hire me for $15/hour as a low level computer tech. A computer janitor, essentially. I worked "in the field". My job roles consisted of configuring hundreds of computers by hand, performing keyboard and screen replacements, and occasionally having to physically deliver dozens of computers to our clients' office locations. My fellow techs had never progressed beyond high school, and I had just graduated a liberal arts college with a CS degree. I felt a little ashamed. To get attention from management, I started writing software to automate a large portion of my job. Surprisingly, and fortunately for me, no one had thought to do this before. The company's sysadmin was excellent, but he lacked a flair for programming. Management soon moved me into a sysadmin role, and I became the company's go-to guy for writing programs that would make configuration changes to our thousands of client machines in the field. My pay was increased and I got a desk. It helped greatly that I was the only person in our company's US office that had any programming ability. I guess my advice to you is to first get your foot in the door doing the most trivial work they'll give you, and then show them what you're really capable of.

Re: 22 and no life

#83
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but one can save up $5000 in a summer working full time in food service. I did it as a prep cook when I was 19.

No you can't. 40 * 8/hour = 320 @ 4 weeks (3) = $3,840. How in the world could anyone save $5,000 in a summer when they're not even pulling in that amount? EDIT: Even working 80 per week only brings in $7,680. Factor in bills and you're still not hitting 5k, guy.

Assuming, of course, that you can actually get 40 hours...

Re: 22 and no life

#84
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now you understand his mindset of feeling like he is trapped in the town he currently lives in.

Yes, but one can save up $5000 in a summer working full time in food service. I did it as a prep cook when I was 19.

[deleted]

Re: 22 and no life

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one find an (appropriate) open source project to contribute to, especially as a C#, Asp.Net or Java developer?

Your lack of ability to google or search on your own is a bit worrisome, but I spent a few minutes doing your work for you. =) There 18k+ open source repos on github for c#: https://github.com/search?l=C%23&q=c&type=Repositori... There are 44k+ open source repos on github for java: https://github.com/search?l=Java&q=c&type=Repositori... I'm not even gonna bother for Asp.Net. Now, for some real advice. 'Open Source' a…

As an example of an excellent C# program that's pretty widely accepted in Linux/Gnome, why not take a look at Tomboy Notes? http://projects.gnome.org/tomboy/

There are lots of opportunities for addons/etc, and it's reasonably extensible. Could be a great first project.

Re: 22 and no life

#86
post #53

I'm in what might be considered a precursor to this situation. I'm a high schooler and although I have a fair amount of technical skill, finding employment has been a fruitless endeavor. I fear that my inability to find freelance work or secure an internship will preclude me from the vast majority of jobs. Moreover, my grades are fairly mediocre (something largely attributable to depression and general apathy), which…

Boy, if you start contributing to some open source project at your age, you'll be so ahead of the game. And you can do it from anywhere, for free (well, provided your access to HN is free.) Get yourself early exposure and it will be like a an investment fund that keep on giving compound interest.

Re: 22 and no life

#87
post #62
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$5000 in three months working in food service? Doing that in a year or even six months is plausible, depending on how lucky his circumstances are, but three months strikes me as a bit of a stretch. At $10/hr * 40 hr/week * 12 week = $4800, ignoring rent, food, incidentals, and taxes.

I worked 10am to midnight 6 days a week.

Based on my friends' experiences, you often have to fight tooth and nail to actually get overtime at some retail or fast food places. In other words, simply working more is not always an option.

If that were to become an obstacle, one solution may be to get a second job.

And yet the OP writes that he's having trouble getting even one of these jobs. It may be hard to believe, but some small towns have a vast, vast excess of people wanting these jobs.

Re: 22 and no life

#88
Wow! Thank you all for reading/responding, I really didn't think I would get any sort of response. I'm very much taking your guys' insight into consideration and will be contacting some of you! I'm feeling beyond motivated right now. Seriously, thank you guy's!!

Re: 22 and no life

#89

Honestly, probably one of the best things you could do is join the military. If you are tech savvy, then chances are that you can score high enough on the ASVAB (entry test) in order to get into a really high speed career field. I joined the Navy, became an arabic linguist, left after a few years, and got a programming job as a contractor for 102k/year. Here's the process you're looking at if you want to take a simil…

I almost joined the navy right out of high school. I went through much of the recruiting process, but ultimately decided against it. For me, that was one of the best decisions of my life. For you, you should consider it, but give a lot of thought to it before you even start the recruiting process. Military recruiters will lie to you and your family (maybe not all of them, but it happened to me) to make sure you join and if you don't have a lot of determination to exit the recruiting process, you will likely get sucked in even if you change your mind.
Post reply on HN