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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

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271–280 of 341 posts

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#271
post #11

This stuff aggravates me. My taxes aren't abnormally complex (single, one state, very few deductions, one w-2), but I get several 1099s for my investments and end up spending an hour filling them in manually, importing CSV files from my brokerages, and double checking the numbers. What annoys me is all the forms clearly state the IRS has also been sent this information; I'm literally filling out forms in a slow, erro…

I haven't manually entered more than a trivial amount data into TurboTax in years. Most banks and brokerages seem to be on the direct-download bandwagon these days.

Are you endorsing TurboTax as some sort of appropriate monopoly on tax prep? My bank can tie in to TurboTax, but why should I have to support a private company lobbying to make the tax code worse on purpose just to do my taxes easily?

I went through the same thing as the commenter above and it was OBNOXIOUS. Even worse, there's no real reason for it be done the way it is.

Oh, and then I realized I'd made a really stupid (but easy to make) mistake that altered the amount I owed by $12 and had to file an amended return.

Really really obnoxious.

I'd bet anything people would care 10x less about getting taxed if filing weren't such a hassle.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#272
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. We are talking about instances where both you and the government have all the information necessary to compute your tax exactly. It doesn't matter who does the calculation, the rate is fixed in advance. Even if you let them calculate the number for you there is no reason you can't double check it. For more complicated tax situations where you are trying to minimize your tax based on information not availa…

Your (and others) comment is about income and taxes paid only. However, the US tax system is not just about income and taxes paid; it is also about deductions and tax credits. Yes, the IRS can calculate accurately (based on company reporting/history) what you've earned (income) and paid into the system for the tax year (taxes paid). Is that all you want them to do though? Of course not. Anyone who says, "Yes!" to tha…

I think that, while the "5 minutes and you're done" thing can be understood as marketing spin, it would not be tremendously hard for any IRS service to provide the same kind of itemized listing that most tax softwares do to handle credits and deductions.

My tax experience is light–it takes me maybe an hour of data entry after all my stuff is gathered–so this wouldn't actually help me at all. But for others? If you could shave off as little as 20% from time spent on taxes, that sounds worthwhile to me.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#273
post #55
post #6

Hmm. How good is Turbo Tax, I mean I can tell it's horribly coded, but does it have automated features/recommendations that will help you earn more? Or is it basically what the tax system does in Swede/Finland etc?

I'm curious what makes you think it's horribly coded. I actually work at Intuit on an app deeply integrated in TurboTax and although I haven't seen the code for TurboTax proper, my team's code is quite nice imho :)

For me, it was the deep integration with Internet Explorer browser elements and rendering engine. For several years, TurboTax just wouldn't run on my main desktop computer, always throwing some arcane error message about MSHTML, and the only info I could find from Intuit was something about upgrading Internet Explorer which was already done. I had to install and use TurboTax on either an underpowered laptop or my work machine.

It cleared up somewhere along the line, I think with IE8 circa 2010, but I'm always still not quite trusting of TurboTax's code quality.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#274

Yes, TurboTax is being rather transparently venal, but that doesn't mean they're wrong. I doubt the American government is competent enough to get tax calculations right, and I suspect they're hungry enough for revenue to make all their default assumptions in their favor. At least that's been my experience with every state and federal tax authority I've dealt with for the past half-decade or so. Once we have a tax co…

They're not competent enough to make an initial proposal for how much taxes are due, but they are competent enough to doublecheck a manually filled out tax statement and not send you a tax bill which you don't owe them? The blindly trusting will get ripped off regardless of whether returns are prefilled, assuming a government set on tax fraud (an irrational assumption in my opinion.)

Prefilled returns are the opening round in a negotiation with the government. In any bargaining situation the opening offer is the weakest party. You should prefer them to make the opening offer, especially if you distrust them. Better that you check their numbers rather than them checking yours.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#275

The IRS switched to an xml file format a couple of years ago for e-filing, which broke the first week of the tax season. They were unable to accept any returns for around a week, IIRC. This article is a little overly optimistic about their chances of fully replacing tax prep, in my opinion.

The belgian government is so ineffective we didn't have one for two years because they failed to organize a ruling cabinet after elections. And still we have prefilled returns that work well. It's not that difficult.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worst part is that we have to pay US taxes as well local taxes even if we don't live or make any money in the US. If you live in a county with an effective lower tax rate you have to pay the difference. I take home less money than someone with the same job and same expenses. In addition it's so cumbersome to file from abroad that I have to pay someone. It's like the king of England collecting taxes from the ones who…

"Worst part is that we have to pay US taxes as well local taxes even if we don't live or make any money in the US." You can resign your citizenship. I remember hearing reports of people doing this last year (going to Singapore)

Eduardo Saverin's a good example. Of course, he did have the benefit of dual citizenship (Brazil).

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worst part is that we have to pay US taxes as well local taxes even if we don't live or make any money in the US. If you live in a county with an effective lower tax rate you have to pay the difference. I take home less money than someone with the same job and same expenses. In addition it's so cumbersome to file from abroad that I have to pay someone. It's like the king of England collecting taxes from the ones who…

"Worst part is that we have to pay US taxes as well local taxes even if we don't live or make any money in the US." You can resign your citizenship. I remember hearing reports of people doing this last year (going to Singapore)

That's not exactly an easy or consequence-free thing to do.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#278
There is a lot of reading between the lines that needs to be done with this article:

> It's already a reality in Denmark, Sweden and Spain.

This is roughly equivalent to saying: "New York, New Jersey, and Louisiana already do it, why not the whole country? Lobbying must be to blame!"

> William Gale, co-director of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center.

So the left agrees with it, I wonder what the right thinks?

> Conservative tax activist Grover Norquist

Now things are getting interesting.

> opposes IRS government tax preparation. > allowing the IRS to act as a tax preparer could result in taxpayers paying more money > calling return-free filing a "massive expansion of the U.S. government through a big government program."

> In 2005, Norquist testified before the President's Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform arguing against return-free filing. The next year, Norquist and others wrote in a letter to President Bush that getting an official-looking "bill" from the IRS could be "extremely intimidating, particularly for seniors, low-income and non-English speaking citizens."

> The letter says the IRS wants to "socialize all tax preparation in America" to get higher tax revenues.

> A year after Norquist wrote Bush, a bill to limit return-free filing was introduced by a pair of unlikely allies: Reps. Eric Cantor, R-Va., the conservative House majority leader

The article says Intuit spent $11.5 million lobbying in the last five years (which in the U.S. is table scraps--see $30 million paid by Yahoo! for Summly).

What is really more likely here. That Intuit has managed to buy the government for $2 million a year, or instead that they've successfully hit on a message (free tax filing = government takeover of return preparation) that resonates with rightists and billionaires who have good reason to not want the IRS to have any part in tax return preparation, not to mention ideologues who see simpler tax filing as a slippery slope to making it easier for the government to raise taxes without push-back (on the theory that citizens are more likely to push back against taxes if they are forced to face the numbers every April).

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#279
post #236

There are two things that disturb me about the US government: 1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and 2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth. As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Repo…

>In Australia I think they can go back 7 years. No idea what it is in the US. It's 3 years. And fairly easy to look up: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Em... Those records generally should be kept for three years from the date the tax return was filed. >Yes by all means send me to prison for failing to mention a $24,000 retirement account in Australia I can't touch until I'm 65 instead. Great us…

It's 3 years generally, 6 years for fraud, and infinite if you don't file. (IANALTAX, of course)

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#280
post #167

Frankly, anyone who does trust any government hasn't had very much experience with them. At best, governments are inefficient and incompetent. At worst, they are run by politicians absorbed with self-interest. There are already scads of people trusting too much to other entities rather than figuring it out on their own. These people leave their tax withholdings at default levels, then walk down to the local Wal-Mart…

Lol, first time I've heard a libertarian arguing for more paperwork and government programs.

Libertarian paternalism is a thing, even if GP probably doesn't know what it is. It's actually interesting to learn a bit more about, since it's effective as a political-philosophical position, even if it's got holes as much as any other position.

If you get a libertarian paternalist who really doesn't know what he's talking about, you can easily watch him justify totalitarianism in the name of freedom. It's horrifying.

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