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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#251

Post by Periodic »

JPKab wrote: post #201
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is not bad at code because of lobbying, they're bad at code because of fluctuating budgets, low salaries, and ridiculous processes.

The government doesn't pay low salaries to coders, (remember, all they really need are CRUD apps. This isn't rocket science), its just HORRIBLE at hiring. Rather than leaving any hiring decision to anyone who knows the issue at hand, hiring is done based on a process which is optimized to be legally unimpeachable. When government succeeds, nobody gets credit, but when they get sued, its cover your ass time. This is w…

I've been able to witness some of this in the State of California. This system is designed to try to prevent the government from overspending on software. They can always point to a public RFP and open bids if anyone objects. However, it is not designed to produce the best value for the state.

First the RFP has to be written, which itself is a very political process and may have been initiated by a contractor/sales-person convincing someone they need the software or process in question. They'll often help write the RFP if you let them. These RFPs are often signed off on by non-technical people who are not qualified to really understand the technical details.

Then the state has to get multiple bids. Sometimes the RFP is written so specifically that many options are excluded. For example, I've seen an RFP that required the state pay for the software. The way it was worded excluded an OSS contracting company from providing support for a Linux solution. A more public example is the LA School District looking for computers for their students. They are required to support both a keyboard and touch, which is prime market for Windows Surface devices. It could theoretically go to something like an iPad, but it makes it very hard for laptop makers to compete.

Finally the state is required to take the lowest bid that meets the requirements of the RFP. To reject a bid the state has to show that it does not meet the requirements. They can't simply take something that is better value, they have to take the cheapest solution that meets the minimum requirements.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#252

Post by seanalltogether »

mgkimsal wrote: post #247
cletus wrote: post #236

There are two things that disturb me about the US government: 1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and 2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth. As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Repo…

As a US person who visits other countries, I get scared about making a mistake in immigration issues. Going through customs in a country where you don't speak the language (well or at all) is scary.

I agree. Applying for a UK visa is not a walk in the park and you can lose a lot of money on application fees for failing to include documentation that covers every single statement you make on an application, even if that statement isn't integral to them approving the visa.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#253

Post by anigbrowl »

cletus wrote: post #236

There are two things that disturb me about the US government: 1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and 2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth. As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Repo…

There are two things that disturb me about the US government

This is an article about private interests lobbying to obstruct government reform for their own gain, and you've launched a screed about interesting but really quite irrelevant matters that disturb you about government. Please stop trying to hijack the thread to push your own political agenda. What you wrote has literally nothing to do with this story.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#254

Post by sschueller »

cletus wrote: post #236

There are two things that disturb me about the US government: 1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and 2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth. As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Repo…

Worst part is that we have to pay US taxes as well local taxes even if we don't live or make any money in the US. If you live in a county with an effective lower tax rate you have to pay the difference.

I take home less money than someone with the same job and same expenses. In addition it's so cumbersome to file from abroad that I have to pay someone.

It's like the king of England collecting taxes from the ones who left.

We also have to declare the entire finances of any company that we own more then 10 percent in which is a huge problem for the other 90 percent owners that aren't Americans.

I don't think this will ever get fixed since Americans abroad also don't have any representation in congress. :-(

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#255

Post by lflux »

mongol wrote: post #230
ScottWhigham wrote: post #40

To those saying "We should be more like Sweden/Finland!", I'd ask whether those countries have a tax system that is also based on using tax credits and deductions to lower your tax due? I don't know the tax codes in those countries but my guess is that, because they use the tax entity-created system, they do not have such a complicated tax code as the US. In the US, you have two sides of this: (1) the IRS, and (2) CP…

Swedish here. There are deductions you can make but for the majority, it is either simple, or it has been prefilled. For example, for retirement savings of a very specific kind (IPS for Swedes reading this) there is a possible deduction and I believe it is pre-filled. Same thing for interest on house loans (I believe). For capital gains vs losses, when you trade with stock, you however have to do it "manually" (not p…

Last year I filed all my deductions from renovating and selling an apartment online. There's a fair amount of functionality now (according to the FAQ selling forest, business income, house/apartment sales (K2,5,6) investments (K4) et c) can be done online.

The swedish tax authority also incentivizes people to e-file: if you e-file, you'll get your tax return before midsummer, which in Sweden is a BIG holiday, when most people kick off their summer vacation. Even if you accept the defaults, but file on paper, you'll get your money in August instead of June.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#256

Post by brk »

richoffrails wrote: post #233
brk wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded. Mine was a 6 figure mistake. I fact, it COST the IRS money to contact me. Once they sent info I realized the error, and that I did not in fact owe 6 figures. Paid it anyway so my wife wouldn't stress about penalities, restated ( took a year) and then received a refund with hefty interest paid by the IRS. Along the way their support line was helpful in getting some questions answered.

thinly veiled brag.

No. Just data. I would have been more descriptive, but I was writing that reply on my phone.

If you think it's a brag, I apologize, I try to offer as much insight and perspective from my "learnings the hard way" as I can.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#257

Post by ajross »

chime wrote: post #225
ajross wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where I simply don't understand the thought process. You got burned and had to write a check, and you're angry. And yes, a more efficient and effective tax regime ( which is what the linked article is about! ) would have caught that faster and you would have been less angry. But that's where this has to stop -- your rationalizations just don't hold water. I mean, really: how is paying 4% APR on a loan[1] you…

> I mean, really: how is paying 4% APR on a loan[1] you got from the government "at their mercy?". It's not even a bad rate for an unsecured loan! People routinely pay much higher for car loans, and even now mortgages (which are at historic lows) are only a little better. Because I didn't want the loan. What's not to understand. I wouldn't have had a problem paying the full amount if they had told me sooner. Also it…

The facts keep changing here. How does a 12% interest accumulation on a $500 loan come out to $3000? Or maybe the $500 was the interest, in which case your "loan" amount was $4167 (which, I'll just say again, is hardly an insignificant fact -- lots of people would love to get a $4k loan at 4% with a 3-year baloon payment!). And I don't see why you ended up paying the remaining $2500k to a lawyer when even you admit the tax liability was correct (and in any case why would you pay >50% of the amount being contested on the lawyer anyway? That's just not worth it.)

The one item that strikes me is the bit about the citizenship. And I can clearly see how that would be a huge disruption. But frankly I'd blame an unjust INS policy here. I don't see how you're pinning this on the IRS for correctly (if inefficiently) enforcing its tax code.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#258

Post by lflux »

arnarbi wrote: post #72
ScottWhigham wrote: post #40

To those saying "We should be more like Sweden/Finland!", I'd ask whether those countries have a tax system that is also based on using tax credits and deductions to lower your tax due? I don't know the tax codes in those countries but my guess is that, because they use the tax entity-created system, they do not have such a complicated tax code as the US. In the US, you have two sides of this: (1) the IRS, and (2) CP…

I've lived in Sweden and Iceland, both of which have pre-filled tax returns to be submitted either on paper or electronically. Sweden is particularly easy, all I have to do is to verify the numbers and then send an SMS with a personal code printed on my return. If I need to change anything, I log into the tax office website, make the changes and submit. I have deductions to offset paid interest. If I hire a person to…

To elaborate: In Sweden, even if you accept the defaults, your creditors and employers will send you statements (sv: kontrolluppgift) of your debts, interest, earnings, income et c that you can easily double-check against the defaults.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#259

Post by brk »

FireBeyond wrote: post #217
brk wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded. Mine was a 6 figure mistake. I fact, it COST the IRS money to contact me. Once they sent info I realized the error, and that I did not in fact owe 6 figures. Paid it anyway so my wife wouldn't stress about penalities, restated ( took a year) and then received a refund with hefty interest paid by the IRS. Along the way their support line was helpful in getting some questions answered.

At the risk of seeming flippant, but if you can afford to pay a six figure mistake just "so my wife wouldn't stress", then she probably really didn't have too much to stress about, financial burden of penalties or otherwise.

My wife has several degrees in finance, and that is her field. So I am lucky that our finances are somewhat more well managed than a lot of other folks. Her "home budget" spreadsheet spans more tabs than many small business' budgets.

With that in mind, we keep a certain amount of "operating expensed" liquid, since we both tend to work in smaller companies than can go sour rather fast. Paying out that check to the IRS sucked up the majority of those liquid funds. If you've read some of my posts in the past (not that I'd expect you to have done so...), you'd see that I'm on the upper end of the age scale here, have been around a while, and managed to enjoy a run through the dot-com 90's. So, I do not have the finances of a single 20-something college graduate.

I looked at this IRS payment as an investment. I was very highly confident that I would get my money back (and then some), so that was the easiest path, all things considered. Had I been more in doubt I would have certainly kept the money, reasoning that I'd rather have them pry it away from me if it came to that.

I didn't mean for my comment to sound like I just go around writing 6 figure checks as the path of least resistance.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#260

Post by anigbrowl »

noonespecial wrote: post #42
rm999 wrote: post #11

This stuff aggravates me. My taxes aren't abnormally complex (single, one state, very few deductions, one w-2), but I get several 1099s for my investments and end up spending an hour filling them in manually, importing CSV files from my brokerages, and double checking the numbers. What annoys me is all the forms clearly state the IRS has also been sent this information; I'm literally filling out forms in a slow, erro…

You forgot the part about when == is != they get to charge you a giant penalty. That's no accident.

Rubbish. I made a $250 mistake on my tax return a few years ago and they just wrote me a nice letter about it. The only penalty I paid was some tiny dollar amount of interest. I don't dispute that people can have bad experiences with the IRS but they're not going to drop the hammer on you over a math error.
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