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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#231
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some government programs have excellent customer service as compared to some corporate equivalents I am sure we could find counterexamples here.

In my experience, I would tend to agree that customer service from the government is generally better than corporations, from the DMV (though states my vary), County Clerk Recorders, Passport offices and even the IRS, and they generally seem happier than customer service folk at corporations who read verbatim from support guide trees and are incentivized to do what's in the best interests of the company rather than y…

In my experience of living in four different US states that the quality of customer service in government departments varies from locale to locale and even department to department, just like in corporations. My visit to the DMV here in Texas was quick and easy but the visit to the DMV in Las Vegas was such a maddening experience I'm surprised anyway bothers to get a drivers license in the first place. In the office if someone announced they were going to the DMV we would assume their inability to escape and start looking for a replacement. I heard stories of a guy that got in line as the foundation was being poured for the DMV and he's still there to this day, fifth in line.

I think you probably get the point.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#232
post #227
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one pays penalties for simple mistakes. That's what FOX news tells you, but it's not true. We've made five-figure goofs on taxes in the past and a simple letter explaining the mistake (assuming it's an explainable mistake and you didn't get caught in actual attempted fraud) is enough to get the penalty waved.

"No one pays penalties for simple mistakes. That's what FOX news tells you, but it's not true" My first reaction is "agree" as I have been through this as well. But now I will modify that agreemet to recognize that not everyone is smart or capable enough to know how to approach fixing something like this with a letter. Or to take the time to read the letter or understand what is going on. Or maybe they go to the cler…

I should point out that I completely agree here. Streamlining any sort of manditory process, especially one like this that can affect people financially, is always a good idea. That, after all, is what the linked article is about.

But I'll also say that if you want to address tax complexities in a way that will most help those in need, catching unclaimed EITC returns (something like 30% of eligible filers don't claim it, I believe) is a much better use of effort than trying to eliminate underpayment mistakes.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#233
post #147
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one pays penalties for simple mistakes. That's what FOX news tells you, but it's not true. We've made five-figure goofs on taxes in the past and a simple letter explaining the mistake (assuming it's an explainable mistake and you didn't get caught in actual attempted fraud) is enough to get the penalty waved.

Seconded. Mine was a 6 figure mistake. I fact, it COST the IRS money to contact me. Once they sent info I realized the error, and that I did not in fact owe 6 figures. Paid it anyway so my wife wouldn't stress about penalities, restated ( took a year) and then received a refund with hefty interest paid by the IRS. Along the way their support line was helpful in getting some questions answered.

thinly veiled brag.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#234

Couple of notes. 1) The IRS itself gets most of the tax advice wrong that it gives out to taxpayers 2) Paying taxes is one of the few transactional relationships you have with your government. If you ask me, a government representative should come to your office and you should pay him in cash, not hide and automate taxes so that they disappear. 3) There is a difference between a simple tax system and a tax system tha…

"2) Paying taxes is one of the few transactional relationships you have with your government. If you ask me, a government representative should come to your office and you should pay him in cash, not hide and automate taxes so that they disappear." Yep. My brother resists giving his credit cards to businesses to keep on file because it makes it much easier for them to get your money habitually, unconsciously, acciden…

> In the same way that unconscious eating habits make people obese, unconscious tax policies makes the government obese.

This analogy doesn't make sense since unconscious eating habits do not have a causative link with obesity and existing studies about correlative relationships are fraught with issues.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#235
Here's my idea. I suspect TurboTax would lobby against it as well.

Tax reform.

Woah. I mean make it simple enough that there isn't any need for tax specialists, because it's just not that involved. Then filing takes seconds for most people, audits are trivial, costs go down for everyone, and most importantly, companies that shouldn't exist die (H&R Block, TurboTax, the many law firms that help major corporations exploit tax loopholes). Win win win win?

sigh. Never gonna happen.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#236
There are two things that disturb me about the US government:

1. As a whole, it seems to operate on the assumption of guilt; and

2. It seems bought and paid for by special interests, pork barrelling and so forth.

As a foreigner I of course have foreign retirement and bank accounts. If they total more than $10,000 (at any point in the last calendar year) you need to report them. This is FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Reporting).

Failure to do so can result in civil penalties up to the 300% of the balance and/or criminal prosecution. Why? To fight money laundering, drugs, terrorism or child pornography (every piece of onerous US legislation or prosecution is justified by ostensibly fighting one of more of these things; even sharing MP3s).

How are foreign retirement accounts treated? Are they taxable? How do you report them? Nobody really knows. Just tick "Other" and write "Retirement account" and hope for the best.

If your foreign assets are above a certain amount there is another separate form you need to send to the Treasury department IIRC.

You can e-file this form... if you use Internet Explorer. The JavaScript actually doesn't work in any other browser in a way that locks your account after 2-3 attempts.

In Australia the ATO (Australian Tax Office) produces e-tax, which for most people allows you to file taxes for free. But beyond that, the ATO doesn't seem to have this same level of mistrust of its citizens that the IRS does.

In Australia it doesn't scare me to make an honest mistake. In the US it does. This is not only for taxes but things like immigration issues.

In some European countries, once a tax return is accepted, that's it, it's done. The government basically can't reopen that later in an audit. In Australia I think they can go back 7 years. No idea what it is in the US. Probably to the day you were born. Now I'm sure there are exceptions to that rule (as in if you commit deliberate fraud) but the point of the system isn't to punish innocent mistakes.

All the while corporations and high net-worth individuals get away with blue murder as far as tax obligations go. The US could solve a lot of problems if it treated foreign corporate earnings the same as foreign individual earnings (in that you owe taxes on foreign income even if it isn't repatriated but tax you've paid with double-tax treaty countries offsets that obligation).

Yes by all means send me to prison for failing to mention a $24,000 retirement account in Australia I can't touch until I'm 65 instead. Great use of resources.

EDIT: to clarify (2), which is the major point relevant to this article, I don't understand why other governments don't seem so easily bought and sold for a pittance (in this case $1.5M over 5 years).

Another example: toxic fire retardants used in pretty much all couches due to a California law bought by an industry only worth tens of millions a year [1].

In the case of TurboTax specifically, I think so many people use them because of (1) and the complexity of the tax system created by (2).

Many people use TurboTax. You can say that's because of lobbying but that's only part of the story.

[1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/magazine/arlene-blums-crus...

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#237
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's what FOX news tells you Downvoted for egregious politicking. Let's skip the drive-by attacks on FOX and MSNBC, dailykos and drudgereport ... unless they're relevant.

I can see where you're coming from but given some of the content of the original story it's not entirely irrelevant. I actually do wonder a little what Grover Norquist's deal is here. I understand his politics (sort of) but I assume receiving a statement laying out the calculations the government is going to use against you could only be an advantage when strategizing how to reduce one's tax bill. That he'd be agains…

Ten bucks says his organization, Americans for Tax Reform, gets money from Intuit, HR Block, or another similar company. Of course, we'll never know because 501(c)(4)s aren't required to disclose their backers.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#238
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part about when == is != they get to charge you a giant penalty. That's no accident.

No one pays penalties for simple mistakes. That's what FOX news tells you, but it's not true. We've made five-figure goofs on taxes in the past and a simple letter explaining the mistake (assuming it's an explainable mistake and you didn't get caught in actual attempted fraud) is enough to get the penalty waved.

I've paid penalties for an IRS mistake. I submitted my returns, and the IRS said "We found a mistake, here's $300 more than what you thought we were going to refund you!".

A few months later I got another message from the IRS. "You made a mistake and got $300 too much! Pay us back + interest."

Didn't feel like fighting it because I heard that can go south easily, especially for such a tiny amount, so I paid it back with the interest.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#239
For the past three years I have filed my taxes myself, and every single time I make a mistake +- $100 or so, the IRS sends a correction, I fill out more paperwork and send payment / receive refund.

Y'all know this is inefficient. I spend at least 20 hours of work filing my taxes each year, and as a fairly intelligent citizen I always make a mistake anyway.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some government programs have excellent customer service as compared to some corporate equivalents I am sure we could find counterexamples here.

Ever been to the DMV?

Here in Michigan we have the Secretary of State's Office http://www.michigan.gov/sos/

Service wise they do a pretty good job. They've spent the past decade or so beefing up their online and automated services. In most cases you don't even need to go to an actual office if you're dealing with a license or plate renewal.

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