With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie • Hacker News Board

Re: With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie

#51

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 1:36 AM UTC

unalone wrote: post #39

electromagnetic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The philosophy behind the book is good, the politics are stupid from whatever point you look at it. It typifies both stereotypes of capitalism, for the left wing 'capitalism = evil' and for the right wing 'capitalism = glorious'. From a literary stand point, Rands work is the pulp fiction of politics. It plays the traditional stereotypes and helped make the woman famous (specifically in the USA, I believe the word is…

But it takes a much more friendly approach to some pretty heavy philosophical things. I and my friends moved from Rand to Emerson. Reading Emerson (or his contemporary Thoreau) at 16 is a pain unless you have motivation to read his thoughts, and Rand provides that motivation.

[deleted]

Re: With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie

#52

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 1:38 AM UTC

unalone wrote: post #20

msluyter wrote: post #17

I wonder if we'll get the complete Galt speech? ;)

That's Atlas Shrugged 2, due out a month after the main movie. (Is it too off-topic/nerdy to make comparisons between that speech and the Spirit Bomb week from Dragonball Z? Something about way-too-long things is extremely hilarious.)

[deleted]

Re: With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie

#53

Post by jibiki » Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 1:43 AM UTC

paulgb wrote: post #44

Apologies for being slightly off topic, but since there are a number of Atlas Shrugged readers here, I have a question: Is it worth reading? Most discussion about the book seems to be about Objectivism in general, understandably. But aside from the philosophy of the book, is it an entertaining or interesting read? (or is that like the quotation asking "Otherwise, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the show?") I generally like to…

It's a fun read, but it drags a bit towards the end. My gut feeling is that if you enjoyed Dune, then you would probably like Atlas Shrugged.

Re: With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie

#54

Post by vitaminj » Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 2:10 AM UTC

unalone wrote: post #19

arakyd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, that's what everybody said about Watchmen. I've never read the book, but I've heard a lot about Ayn Rand's philosophy, none of it good.

Well, obviously. People who hate Rand loathe her, and people who love Rand are annoying and misphrase her stuff and say stupid things. At the core of her philosophy is the belief that you should live for yourself, that you should do things not because other people want you to but because you want to, that you should never feel guilty for the things that you can do that other people can't, and that the worst kind of p…

I've got nothing against her philosophy in the abstract, it's how people interpret it that I have a problem with. The "selfishness" in living for yourself is supposed to be open ended, but often people interpret this as taking as much as they can for themselves, without thought of the consequences to others.

Rand positioned the major protaganists in Atlas Shrugged (eg. Dagny, Rearden, Galt, etc) as real producers, who through their selfishness, were actually acting in the public interest (railroads, steel, etc). The same can't be said for a selfish sub-prime mortgage lender. Rand's ideas are more or less amoral, and probably need to be coupled with some other moral framework for it to be described as "good".

Re: With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie

#55

Post by unalone » Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 2:11 AM UTC

vitaminj wrote: post #54

unalone wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, obviously. People who hate Rand loathe her, and people who love Rand are annoying and misphrase her stuff and say stupid things. At the core of her philosophy is the belief that you should live for yourself, that you should do things not because other people want you to but because you want to, that you should never feel guilty for the things that you can do that other people can't, and that the worst kind of p…

I've got nothing against her philosophy in the abstract, it's how people interpret it that I have a problem with. The "selfishness" in living for yourself is supposed to be open ended, but often people interpret this as taking as much as they can for themselves, without thought of the consequences to others. Rand positioned the major protaganists in Atlas Shrugged (eg. Dagny, Rearden, Galt, etc) as real producers, wh…

Exactly! That's the problem with lots of her fans. I tried joining an Objectivist forum once - big mistake. I think the closest to a real Objectivist scene you get is a scene of entrepreneurs, actually.

Re: With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie

#56

Post by Automatt-2 » Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 2:13 AM UTC

viggity wrote: post #9

electromagnetic wrote: post #7

Coming from Europe and suffering two recessions caused by US economics, all which Ayn Rand promoted I hope this crap never gets turned into a film. The economy grows at a fair rate on average, yet Rand's aggressive-free-market capitalism basically promotes trying to grow the economy at 5000% until pop and everyone who doesn't have $500 million in the bank gets screwed over. I'm sorry, but when someone gets fired and…

I think you're sorely mistaken if you think that the economics of the US are anywhere near what Rand would consider to be Capitalism. Have you even read her books?

Enlightened self interest doesn't work on a scale necessary for a civilization to function.

Every nation that has next to no government and every man is free to do with his life as he wishes is a giant shithole that teeters in and out of revolution. Want to see objectivism at work? Go visit Somalia or the Democratic Republic of the Congo. In those countries every man is free to pursue "... his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." Countries full of people who are "all noble heros free to pursue their dreams". Too bad their dreams all involve mass murder and slavery to pursue personal wealth and power.

Hobbes was smarter than Rand. We have a Government to protect us from each other.

Re: With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie

#57

Post by endtime » Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 2:47 AM UTC

xenophanes wrote: post #35

chops wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could link a legitimate copy, rather than the pirated copy? Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Fountainhead-Gary-Cooper/dp/B000HWZ4A2... Netflix: http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Fountainhead/70055755?trkid...

Why? Then less people will watch it.

Without moralizing...if you're linking to TPB rather than Amazon, I don't really think you absorbed Rand's message.

(Yes, I know Danneskjold was a pirate, but he was (effectively) stealing tax money and returning it to those who were taxed.)

Re: With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie

#58

Post by endtime » Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 2:48 AM UTC

paulgb wrote: post #44

Apologies for being slightly off topic, but since there are a number of Atlas Shrugged readers here, I have a question: Is it worth reading? Most discussion about the book seems to be about Objectivism in general, understandably. But aside from the philosophy of the book, is it an entertaining or interesting read? (or is that like the quotation asking "Otherwise, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the show?") I generally like to…

Read The Fountainhead first. It's a good primer for Atlas Shrugged, and it's a bit shorter, so if you hate it you'll save some time.

Re: With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie

#59

Post by endtime » Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 2:49 AM UTC

hermitcrab wrote: post #18

I tried to read 'Atlas Shrugged' recently. I only got a few chapters in before I lost interest. But I am not really much of a novel reader. Is it worth reading the Galt speech on its own? If so, where in the books is it (I'm not reading 1,100 pages to find it)?

No, it's not worth it, unless you specifically like reading very dry passages. I slogged through it but only out of a sense of commitment to reading the book in its entirety.

Re: With 'Atlas Shrugged,' Hollywood may have its first anti-bailout movie

#60

Post by Darmani » Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 2:55 AM UTC

whughes wrote: post #37

Darmani wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All over the Internet (even a few other forums for the highly intelligent), there are people trying to blame the recession the "unfettered capitalism" we've apparently gained over the last decade. At HN, I expect people to know better, or, at least, to only have to be taught once.

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you downvote them. This is exactly the kind of attitude that fosters groupthink and drains the life out of forums.

What gets on my nerves isn't whether people like capitalism, it's whether they go around saying that the system we have now is laissez-faire capitalism, and then huge bonuses to failed executives are testament to that. I have full respect for someone who has a very clear idea of what capitalism is and argues against it nonetheless.