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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#51

Post by MBCook »

ScottWhigham wrote: post #40

To those saying "We should be more like Sweden/Finland!", I'd ask whether those countries have a tax system that is also based on using tax credits and deductions to lower your tax due? I don't know the tax codes in those countries but my guess is that, because they use the tax entity-created system, they do not have such a complicated tax code as the US. In the US, you have two sides of this: (1) the IRS, and (2) CP…

Ignore all the deductions and other stuff. It's a mess and should be fixed, but for this simple issue, it's not relevant.

I get W2s, 1099s, 1099-Rs, 1099-INTs, THX-1178s, ABC-123s, etc. I have to manually copy the stuff from boxes 1-30 on each of those onto my returns. I'd file my taxes in January expect it takes weeks for all the various organizations I deal with to make those and send them through the mail.

I shouldn't have to enter any of that. The government already knows it, they'll check my return against it. When I start my return, it should be pre-filled.

It's sad that Intuit and H&R Block fight this; though I'm not surprised. I'd say the government should provide a direct copy of the 1040 form online with this boxes pre-filled. Intuit and H&R Block should make their money by making easier forms and providing guidance.

Note that "keeping the government forms complex" doesn't count as "making easier forms".

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#52

Post by harshreality »

seivan wrote: post #6

Hmm. How good is Turbo Tax, I mean I can tell it's horribly coded, but does it have automated features/recommendations that will help you earn more? Or is it basically what the tax system does in Swede/Finland etc?

Poorly coded in terms of usability, I'm guessing? I think the workflow for modifying already entered (or skipped) parts of the tax return is lacking. It's difficult to keep track of navigation for more complex returns.

Turbotax should have a tree-like navigation pane to the side, showing status icons for each section.

I don't know if it's horribly coded though. One test would be how quickly they could add the navigation pane. If the underlying code is properly designed, it would be a minor project. If the entire codebase is designed around forcing people through the back/next workflow within each category, arbitrary navigation might require major code surgery.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#53

Post by jimmaswell »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #45
theorique wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some government programs have excellent customer service as compared to some corporate equivalents I am sure we could find counterexamples here.

Ever been to the DMV?

I've been to the DMV to get an ID and it wasn't bad at all. The worst I've seen happen to other people is a long line. What are the big problems people apparently have with the DMV all the time? I'm from NY if that makes a difference.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#54

Post by hkarthik »

US Tax reform is one of those things I don't expect to happen in my life time. Our government is too addicted to the income stream it provides and is just too scared to mess with it in any meaningful way.

All it takes is a fear monger with an agenda like Intuit to whisper "Our experts estimate that you will lose $X billion in uncollected taxes with this new scheme" to send congressmen from both parties running.

Ideally, we would see state governments take the lead here and innovate. If they can show meaningful gains then maybe the Federal government will pay attention.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#55

Post by bradly »

seivan wrote: post #6

Hmm. How good is Turbo Tax, I mean I can tell it's horribly coded, but does it have automated features/recommendations that will help you earn more? Or is it basically what the tax system does in Swede/Finland etc?

I'm curious what makes you think it's horribly coded. I actually work at Intuit on an app deeply integrated in TurboTax and although I haven't seen the code for TurboTax proper, my team's code is quite nice imho :)

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#56

Post by nonamegiven »

danielweber wrote: post #22
LarryMade2 wrote: post #3

This is why the US can't have shiny things. I've always thought the IRS should provide us with a lot of the tax info, since it gets reported to them so regularly.

Partly they want to see what you say, to see if you are lying.

Let's give them an opportunity to lie, where a lie would otherwise be all but impossible. Then we get to put some of them in jail. Yay!

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#57

Post by akadien »

theorique wrote: post #47

All taxes are theft of the private property of free citizens.

I definitely agree with respect to income, estate, and property taxes. Consumption-based taxes are fairer than so-called "progressive" tax schemes implemented to fund world wars and military expansion.

Ref. http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/is-the-estat...

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#58

Post by JimWestergren »

ScottWhigham wrote: post #40

To those saying "We should be more like Sweden/Finland!", I'd ask whether those countries have a tax system that is also based on using tax credits and deductions to lower your tax due? I don't know the tax codes in those countries but my guess is that, because they use the tax entity-created system, they do not have such a complicated tax code as the US. In the US, you have two sides of this: (1) the IRS, and (2) CP…

My guess is that at least 85% of the population of Sweden does not have any deductions and can just accept the prefilled values from the tax office (employees). For a normal employee there are not so many deductions you can do. I guess travel to and from work is the most common deduction. But if you have a business (not a corp) things is of course very different.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#59

Post by cpinto »

ScottWhigham wrote: post #40

To those saying "We should be more like Sweden/Finland!", I'd ask whether those countries have a tax system that is also based on using tax credits and deductions to lower your tax due? I don't know the tax codes in those countries but my guess is that, because they use the tax entity-created system, they do not have such a complicated tax code as the US. In the US, you have two sides of this: (1) the IRS, and (2) CP…

In Europe taxpayers waste millions with the tax authorities' pre-filled/free filing systems. The major reason for that is that once you have free filing with some data preloaded, human behaviour kicks in and you either spend some time figuring out where to minimize your tax losses (rational economic behaviour) or accept the tax return presented by the tax authorities and go with that even if it means wasting money (irrational behaviour).

To give a sense of how big a problem this is, here in the UK a report came out last year that pointed to £12.6B wasted. In Portugal, waste is around €2B if our math is right.

(Shameless plug): At http://gosimpletax.com we're actually helping taxpayers save as much as possible with as little friction as possible. We're currently operating in the UK & Portugal and would be great to have your feedback if you're in any of these countries.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#60

Post by homosaur »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #45
theorique wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some government programs have excellent customer service as compared to some corporate equivalents I am sure we could find counterexamples here.

Ever been to the DMV?

Blame your city government. St. Louis City Hall houses the DMV and all other city offices and the service is stellar. I've yet to have a bad experience in over two dozen trips there.
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