I would hire that dude. Why not.
Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?
171–180 of 182 posts
Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?
#172I would say, take the same mixture of creativity and willful persistence that led you to crack systems and apply that to getting a job you are happy with. That combination of character traits will destroy most obstacles in time.
Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?
#173Robert Morris had a similar background (Computer Fraud) and he still got to be YC co-founder. So I just say that you go on and be happy and successful.
> founder is the key word here > So I just say that you go on and be happy and successful. that is worthless advice
What's wrong with being founder?
Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't deliberately lie to employers who ask about your criminal record. The only ones who won't go absolutely apeshit on you when they find out are the ones who would hire you anyways if you just told them in the first place. What does "go absolutely apeshit" mean? I contend that there's risk of termination, likely without severance. Anything more would expose the individual in a way that most people would avoid. Als…
> What does "go absolutely apeshit" mean? 1. Criminal complaint that results in arrest. Youthful folly can be forgiven, but being caught in a calculated adult deception is pretty much nonrecoverable. 2. Audits of everything he touched, with a view towards uncovering a repeat of his earlier deceptions. Even if he is innocent, there is a good chance that the security consultants and forensic accountants will find somet…
Criminal complaint that results in arrest.
Lying in a job search, while usually unethical, is not always illegal. Most of the lies people tell to make themselves look more impressive or to conceal blemishes are not in violation of law.
Job fraud is pretty tightly defined. If you cannot perform the job (or have no intent to do so) and know it beforehand, you're committing job fraud. It's illegal (it's fraud) and you can go to jail for it. The same is true if you feign qualifications to get a job you cannot legally perform (e.g. quack doctors). Also highly illegal.
However, if your deception makes you a more attractive candidate for a job you can perform, then it's not job fraud. It might be unethical, but it's not jailable.
In fact, job search lies are only cause for termination if the employer can establish (sometimes requiring cavity searches of personnel decisions) that the person would not have been hired were the truth known. If the company only hires 3.5+ GPAs as a matter of HR policy and he turned a 2.8 into 3.7, that's "for cause" (even if he was a great employee) because there is an internally published and consistent policy and he didn't fit. However, if the person concealed a 5-month gap in employment history, that might have been a factor but the onus is on employer to establish that it constitutes "cause".
However, with this particular case (concealed felony conviction) the employer will have almost no controversy on that one when it comes to firing for cause. I don't think anyone doubts that. If he gets found out and fired, he can't expect severance.
Audits of everything he touched, with a view towards uncovering a repeat of his earlier deceptions.
Yeah, he's got to be whiter than white, ethically speaking, from here on out, except when there is strategic necessity. Avoiding long-term unemployment constitutes "strategic necessity". Once you're in check, the way he is, you really have to limit your lies and make them count. Picking your battles becomes key.
Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
> founder is the key word here > So I just say that you go on and be happy and successful. that is worthless advice
What's wrong with being founder?
Nothing, that was my point. For OP it would make a lot of sense to found a company / consult / etc instead of working _for_ a company, to get around his felony.
The part with "worthless advice" was about the whole "oh, also be successful and happy" thing.
Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder.. technically, not having a passport doesn't prevent you from leaving the country. You can get in a boat and take off. Leaving by plane is difficult, as well as legally entering another country. Is it actually illegal to reenter the US as a citizen without a US passport? I would hope that as a US citizen you have a right to entry and visiting a US Consulate in another country would start the process regardle…
Exiting the US on foot at the Mexican border involves no check of any kind of documentation-- you just walk through a couple turnstiles, and a Mexican Marine may search your bag if you look suspicious. That, of course, makes it easy to be in Tiajuana without a passport. From what I heard when I lived in San Diego, if you bring a US drivers' license, and especially if you also bring a US birth certificate, the border…
Given this, I wonder what the rationale is for denying felon's passports? I mean, if it doesn't prevent you from leaving the country or entering the country, both of which are violations of international law.
Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're often not allowed to change your name for this sort of reason.
Really you can change your name for whatever reason you want, and there isn't even a process. You just start introducing yourself as that new name. Of course you have to be careful which name you use on which form (legal name goes on the I-9, chosen name goes on the resume, occasionally you get the opportunity to fill out the 'other aliases' field, etc), but otherwise there is zero hassle and so long as there is not…
I meant legally change your name. Of course you can change your name by going by a different one.
http://www.co.stearns.mn.us/Portals/0/docs/Document%20Librar... for instance for one of the hassels here
Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?
#178DISCLAIMER: This is NOT legal advice. I am not a lawyer, and there's a hell of a lot of risk in what I'm going to tell you to do. When I was a teenager, someone I knew did something nonviolent but pretty bad (severe academic dishonesty) and had a non-empty answer to the "Discipline Question". You might judge me negatively for keeping such a person as a friend-- and I shouldn't have, but that's another story-- but at…
You do not have to rely on an application process when looking for a job. This isn't just advice for people who think they have a challenging story -- it goes for everyone. There are hundreds of stupid ways you get filtered out.
There are examples of far worse felons than the OP who are employed in CS. Find a way to tell the story honestly and in a way that shows that you learned from it. (1) Become a top performer in college by working hard (2) Make public works (3) Build a network
Do that and you won't need to run an application test.
Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's wrong with being founder?
Nothing, that was my point. For OP it would make a lot of sense to found a company / consult / etc instead of working _for_ a company, to get around his felony. The part with "worthless advice" was about the whole "oh, also be successful and happy" thing.
"be successful and happy" is a useful advice because there is an option of "struggle really hard but you will make it".
But it's not, IT/programming has no downsides, just dive into it and it's awesome.
Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?
#180Start your own freelance business and get a bit of reputation by doing low-level work like web design for local pizzerias, restaurants etc. - no one gives a about convictions when hiring a web designer. It's how I managed to stay afloat (although, I am in Germany).
I don't really enjoy taking the time to make things look pretty. I'm not very good at that part of the design process and it takes too long for me (imho) to produce some aesthetic that will never really be functional outside the scope of organization. I have done it when I've needed money though. Just aggravates me.
Get a theme from Themeforest, customize it a bit and you're done. Quick money to grab.