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Firefox getting smarter about third-party cookies

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox getting smarter about third-party cookies

#51

Post by cbr »

baby wrote: post #44
cbr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Analytics javascript runs on your domain and the cookies it uses are on your domain. So it should count as "first party" here.

There is no creation of cookies in the snippet you have to copy/paste on your website. So if some cookies are created they are not first party.

The snippet you paste is for our purposes equivalent to:
Inside the script there are calls to cookie-dropping javascript functions. The browser makes no distinction between javascript loaded via a script tag from your domain, another domain, or simply inline, so any cookies it leaves or reads are "first party".

If they set cookies via HTTP on the request for www.google-analytics.com/ga.js, those would be "third party", and because google-analytics.com isn't a site anyone visits, the new firefox policy would reject them.

Re: Firefox getting smarter about third-party cookies

#53

Post by zzzeek »

baby wrote: post #42
zzzeek wrote: post #27

I'm really enjoying the self-destructing cookies addon: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/self-destruct... . It's really great to go to Facebook and see it have absolutely no idea who I am every time I go there. Plugin works very well.

Never heard of this one, and it looks really good. I'll try it right now. But will it still be useful with the new Firefox updates?

it should, it blacklists all sites by default to not persist cookies at all beyond having the window open.

Re: Firefox getting smarter about third-party cookies

#54

Post by ove »

baby wrote: post #42
zzzeek wrote: post #27

I'm really enjoying the self-destructing cookies addon: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/self-destruct... . It's really great to go to Facebook and see it have absolutely no idea who I am every time I go there. Plugin works very well.

Never heard of this one, and it looks really good. I'll try it right now. But will it still be useful with the new Firefox updates?

Hi, I'm the author of this add-on. You might want to read the FAQ entry "Q: How is this different from disabling 3rd party cookies and installing Adblock?". Firefox's new 3rd party cookie policy is actually weaker than disabling them outright, so this will not change anything.

Re: Firefox getting smarter about third-party cookies

#55

Post by potch »

abcd_f wrote: post #15
Achshar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a request is still a request. It might not make sense to include referer data in the case you mentioned but that does not mean every cros request will fit that description.

Give me an example where sending a Referer is essential to providing me as a user with a better experience. There are no such cases, period. Also, with an exception of dumb content protection schemes (anti-hot-linking), Referrers are used exclusively for tracking purposes and carry zero positive benefits for the users. If Mozilla is in fact "passionate about putting its users first", these headers must go. It is as s…

The ability to highlight search terms in a page.

You may disagree that is a better experience for you, but you may not make blanket statements that "there are no such cases, period".

Re: Firefox getting smarter about third-party cookies

#56

Post by chez17 »

Too wrote: post #35

Finally. Third party cookies provide almost zero value for users . Only use case is for log in on iframe-embedded apps such as Discus comment boards, but the ones you use yourself can be counted on one hand so adding exceptions isn't such a big issue. Adding some UI that shows that you are logged in to Discus on a particular web page would just good imo. I think the "From visited" option is an excellent trade off as…

> Third party cookies provide almost zero value for users.

I don't like third party cookies either, but this is false. Your information is worth something to the right people. The websites you visit, mostly free, can make money off that information. The value to the user are free websites that provide you entertainment/content/etc... and are able to stay free because they are utilizing this as a revenue stream. We all know there are other ways, perhaps more moral ways, but to say it provides nothing to the user is false. It funds the websites you're visiting.

Re: Firefox getting smarter about third-party cookies

#57

Post by mjn »

hiddenfeatures wrote: post #40
cbr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Analytics javascript runs on your domain and the cookies it uses are on your domain. So it should count as "first party" here.

Interesting. Isn't the website just telling to load the script from a Google server (which could count as 3rd party) and execute it?

It's loading from a 3rd party (with a 3rd-party HTTP request), but the script itself is run by the first party: scripts are owned by whichever page executes them, regardless of how that page conjured them up. That's why you can load jquery from a CDN without breaking lots of things, because jquery still "runs from" your domain, same as if it were hosted locally. Also a reason that you really need to trust the third-party host, because if you load malicious third-party JS, it runs from your domain.

Re: Firefox getting smarter about third-party cookies

#58

Post by taf2 »

Too wrote: post #35

Finally. Third party cookies provide almost zero value for users . Only use case is for log in on iframe-embedded apps such as Discus comment boards, but the ones you use yourself can be counted on one hand so adding exceptions isn't such a big issue. Adding some UI that shows that you are logged in to Discus on a particular web page would just good imo. I think the "From visited" option is an excellent trade off as…

what about in the context of a widget. I built a reservation widget and we used third party cookies to help keep your order available as you might load the widget on other sites. It was not an Ad, but for casino websites, they would have multiple domains one for each casino but shared the same reservation system... blocking third party cookies pretty much breaks the widget...

Re: Firefox getting smarter about third-party cookies

#59

Post by brandnewlow »

jbooth wrote: post #36
snaky wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It would actually hurt all the other "smaller" players Exactly. But it's not neccesary a bad thing though. What all the "smaller players" in emerging retracking field - where 3rd party cookies are used in the first place - are doing now is nothing conceptually different from "ah, you've added iPhone to shopping cart at shopX! Now we'll show you iPhone ads for a week on every site you visit!". And user is beating her…

You're right that these retargeting shops have a stupid thesis and can only exist because marketers' metrics haven't evolved enough yet (and that's changing). Highest purchase % doesn't mean you changed intent or created business, you just won the bidding war to show an ad to someone who was already going to buy, or maybe already bought. But users will never manually enable 3rd party cookies, even if they agreed with…

Is your criticism of retargeting based in experience? I'd love to hear more about it.

I work at a "retargeting shop" and our customers test the crap out of our tools to make sure we're actually driving results. Others may use more smoke and mirrors, but when done right, retargeting does in fact change user behavior and generate ROI.

Re: Firefox getting smarter about third-party cookies

#60

Post by anonymoushn »

epmatsw wrote: post #30
Retric wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about newspapers that show articles when a user comes from Google but not otherwise?

How is that a better experience? This is a legitimate question, I don't think I understand what you're referring to.

I think he means that showing you an article is a better experience than not showing you an article.
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