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Linus on Oregon HB 2748 and US education in general

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Re: Linus on Oregon HB 2748 and US education in general

#141

Post by purplelobster »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #135
purplelobster wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shocking news: downsides of the US being blamed on demographics and size. This satisfies the population to accept the crappiness. I've had this conversation too many times, but I'll say it again: Americans (and all people who have not lived abroad) tend to overestimate the differences within their own population and underestimate the differences in outside populations. You overestimate the diversivness of America. Th…

In what way did I overestimate the diversity of America? Our foreign-born population is triple that (by ratio) of Finland, and Finland's foreign-born consist primarily of other scandanavian people who are closely related (Russians and Swedes). Only 80% of Americans are native English speakers while over 90% of Finns are native Finnish. Note that I'm not just picking on Finland here, I'm pointing out that homogeneous…

Agreed, Finland is a very homogeneous country, but you just have to look across the Baltic to find a very similar country with similar immigration levels to the US (Sweden), which I happen to be from. Now the difference is what kind of immigrants the US gets versus European countries. The US has a much higher ratio of skilled immigrant workers. It's very difficult to get in to this country without a STEM master's degree, I'd know. Almost nobody moves to Sweden for the reason to work. They move to Sweden because they might be killed in their home country if they don't leave, and it's one of the few countries that can't turn away immigrants who face threats to their lives. Now look at Portland, which I also happen to live in. It might have a lot of immigrants, but come ON! Are you really using Portland as an example of a dysfunctional place? Portland? Personally, I think this is one of the best places in this country. If I'd go by the correlation then I'd say more diverse populations result in better communities, but I wouldn't go that far.

I'll admit that diverse populations do create problems, but I think it's a cop out for people to blame that for any little problem you might be facing. Man up and take some responsibility.

And this is the point where people start using size as an argument, and how states within the country differ sooo much. I've had long discussions with several people saying that New York and Texas are as different as France and Germany. Which is just ludicrous and shows how little they know about the world.

Btw, Russians and Finns are not closely related in any sense. If you said that to a Finn they'd probably kill you, just giving a heads up. Swedes and Finns are more intertwined by history and culture than related in the genetic or language sense. If you told a Finn that they're related to Swedes they might kill you slightly for that too.

Re: Linus on Oregon HB 2748 and US education in general

#142

Post by purplelobster »

bromang wrote: post #119
purplelobster wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shocking news: downsides of the US being blamed on demographics and size. This satisfies the population to accept the crappiness. I've had this conversation too many times, but I'll say it again: Americans (and all people who have not lived abroad) tend to overestimate the differences within their own population and underestimate the differences in outside populations. You overestimate the diversivness of America. Th…

Should we ignore demographics? Why?

If you keep blaming demographics for everything, then you're giving up. How about, instead of blaming demographics, blame the lack of integration programs, lack of free education and opportunity for everyone, regardless of income, lack of equality in education quality. If a certain demographic comes in as poor individuals and you do nothing to help them, then that's where they'll stay.

Re: Linus on Oregon HB 2748 and US education in general

#143

Post by nnq »

Ras_ wrote: post #126
nnq wrote: post #108

not on topic, but how comes any time there's a comparison of education or healthcare or overall "social health" of the northern European countries (Linus's Finland, Norway, Sweden) with any other country in the world , the northeners are always better? How did they manage to get so many "social" problems so right? Does anyone know of a good case-study about how these countries reached their current level?

Start here: http://www.globalutmaning.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Davo... Then follow up on things that picque your interest. Like social trust and Nordic social contract.

10x kudos! really great resource to start from!

Re: Linus on Oregon HB 2748 and US education in general

#144

Post by joelhooks »

socillion wrote: post #98
joelhooks wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been home educating our four kids. The oldest is 15, enjoys poetry, plays basketball competitively, likes to tinker with computers, reads history, does math, etc. He isn't handicapped by our abilities or knowledge because we provided him with tools to learn. We've made it clear that his education is ultimately his responsibility. It is his job to learn. We serve as mentors and facilitators by providing opport…

From personal experience, I would say optimizing for higher IQ at the cost of lower EQ to the extent that homeschooling makes possible is a very poor tradeoff - and it is also an extremely easy one to make. > The oldest is 15, enjoys poetry, plays basketball competitively, likes to tinker with computers, reads history, does math, etc. FWIW, that sounds like me at 15 and I regret having been homeschooled.

At 15 I was learning how to binge drink, smoke weed competitively, disrupt class, and use my fists offensively/defensively.

So ya, I might have some advantage in the EQ department, but I regret having blown my youth in school.

Re: Linus on Oregon HB 2748 and US education in general

#145

Post by joelhooks »

socillion wrote: post #98
joelhooks wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been home educating our four kids. The oldest is 15, enjoys poetry, plays basketball competitively, likes to tinker with computers, reads history, does math, etc. He isn't handicapped by our abilities or knowledge because we provided him with tools to learn. We've made it clear that his education is ultimately his responsibility. It is his job to learn. We serve as mentors and facilitators by providing opport…

From personal experience, I would say optimizing for higher IQ at the cost of lower EQ to the extent that homeschooling makes possible is a very poor tradeoff - and it is also an extremely easy one to make. > The oldest is 15, enjoys poetry, plays basketball competitively, likes to tinker with computers, reads history, does math, etc. FWIW, that sounds like me at 15 and I regret having been homeschooled.

Should also add that we don't "force" home education, we discuss it regularly and he's the primary decision maker in terms of what to do for high school.

Re: Linus on Oregon HB 2748 and US education in general

#146

Post by sarde »

lbarrow wrote: post #54
tokenadult wrote: post #35

Linus is correct to disagree with the Oregon bill, and it's too bad that he didn't point to an existing example in another state with some cultural similarities to Oregon. Finding out what learning environment, inside or outside school, is optimal for each learner is definitely a worthy goal, especially if means are then provided to obtain that environment. Education policy is the issue that drew me to participate on…

I graduated from one of those Minnesotan miracle school districts in 2007. I think I got a reasonable education -- it wasn't great compared to what people in private schools got, but it set me up to succeed in college. I now live in Chicago, which is the third largest school district in the United States. It's completely broken. * The schools are massively segregated -- both by income and by race. The wealthy leaders…

I attended one of the schools in the Chicago suburbs. A public school. I think that my high school experience was pretty good; even comparable to some of the Minnesotan "miracle school" experiences. I'm just saying, before you move away from Chicago, check out the suburbs, where all the privileged people have fled to.
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