151–160 of 233 posts
I sometimes struggle to reconcile meditation's message of "just observe" with my discomfort at my level of achievement in life.
I realize that being too judgmental can be a sign of an unhealthy perpective on life. But I worry that being too content can dampen my desire to succeed.
That being said, I think meditation is one of my most important practices.
I haven't yet been able to decide whether meditation is legit or not. I keep reading about how awesome it is, how much "scientifically proven benefits" it has. But as soon as you try to learn a little more, everything is mingled with bullshit religious mumbo jumpo. It's difficult to find nice rational sources about the subject.
I've pre-emptively excluded meditation from my set of legitimate things, because it pattern-matches to white people taking something non-white people do and finding "deep wisdom" in it. It's the same reason why various fruits and berries that are common and worthless in south africa sell like hotcakes in the US, and the same reason why anime has so much Christian imagery.
I don't mean here to exclude parallel developments among Eastern Christians (i.e. Eastern and Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Catholics), I'm just making a particular point about meditation not being essentially non-Western or "non-white".
At the risk of oversimplifying, the Western Christian tradition breaks down into two schools of thought: one school advocates active contemplation, while the other advocates passive contemplation.
Since the 16th Century, the school of active contemplation, also known as discursive meditation or mental prayer, has been strongly influenced by various writers and preachers in the Jesuit[1] tradition, but stills feels the influence of great figures such as Bernard of Clairvaux[2] and Benedict of Nursia[3].
The Western school of passive contemplation has, since the 16th Century, been profoundly shaped by the writings of two Spanish authors, John of the Cross[4] and Teresa of Ávila[5], together known as the Carmelite[6] Doctors.
Personally, I am more drawn to active contemplation. In 2007-2008, I had the opportunity to read a classic work on the subject by a 16th Century Spanish Jesuit -- Fr. Alphonsus Rodriguez[7], The Practice of Perfection and Christian Virtues[8]. That work's "Fifth Treatise"[9] is a detailed treatment of personal development with respect to the practice of mental prayer, and I can't recommend it highly enough to persons with an open mind.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_jesus
[2] http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Bernard_of_Clairvaux...
[3] http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Benedict_of_Nursia%2...
[4] http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=John_of_the_Cross%2C...
[5] http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Teresa_of_Jesus_%28A...
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discalced_Carmelites
[7] http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Alonso_Rodriguez
I recently started meditating, using the method in "Mindfulness in Plain English". So far, I've been able to meditate for between 1 to 3 hours at a time, every day. I do feel quite a bit of calm afterwards and during the deep parts of the meditation, and have also experienced some occasional hallucinations (like a feeling of intense bliss, like my arms are floating, like my chest is a hundred feet from my head) when…
>>>>> I want to find out what (if anything) lies beyond our ordinary perception of the world. Is what we normally take to be the "real world" (or "objective reality", "external reality", etc) actually an illusion like Buddhism and Hinduism claim? If so, can the techniques of Buddhist or Hindu meditation really reveal the "true reality" beyond the illusion of the ordinary world? I would like to find out. I've studied…
I have studied and have experience with a wide variety of altered states and methods for inducing them, from psychedelics to meditation, drumming, strobe lights, flotation tanks, sweat lodges.
Of these, I found psychedelics to be by far the most powerful. Nothing else I've ever tried has come remotely close to being even a thousandth as powerful. Unfortunately, because of their legal status, I haven't done them for a very long time. I do think they have a lot of potential for constructive use, if done by a person educated in their effects and use, in a safe, supportive setting, with a knowledgeable, trusted guide, with honesty, respect, and a concrete, positive intention. In fact, here[1] is an interesting article about using psychedelics as an aid to Buddhist meditation.
As for shamanism, I've read The Way of the Shaman back in a university course I took on shamanism and witchcraft. Right now I'm making my way through Shamanic Voices by Joan Halifax (which I strongly recommend) and Singing to the Plants by Stephan V. Beyer, about ayahuasca shamanism in the Amazon.
Listening to 4 to 7 Hz drumming (per Harner's recommendation) has been a bit of a disappointment to me, although I haven't done all that much of it. Three or four sessions (at about an hour or two at a time) have resulted in either me falling asleep or some feelings of intense pleasure (much like I experienced in some deep states of meditation) -- but certainly no visions, much less "shamanic journeys". Overall, I think I'm more impressed by the effects of meditation so far. However, I intend to experiment more with drumming.
My one experience in a sweat lodge was literally torture. I'm not nearly masochistic enough to travel this path of inducing altered states of consciousness. There have got to be better ways.
My one flotation tank experience was interesting, and I would continue experimenting with it if it wasn't so expensive (about $40 a session). I'd liken the experience to something between meditation and dreaming or hypnagogic visions. Unfortunately, my consciousness was already slightly altered when I tried it, so I can't comment on how a "pure" flotation tank experience would be.
If I was ever fortunate enough to have another psychedelic experience, I would definitely like to try drumming, playing simple musical instruments, or singing -- as is done in many shamanic contexts. From what I've read, these may be effective ways of navigating the realms one is transported to.
Having the aid of an honest, experienced and knowledgeable shaman would also be very valuable. Unfortunately, I've heard that they are hard to come by these days, when Ayahuasca tourism and monetary considerations have enticed many less scrupulous individuals to pretend to be something they're not.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>>>> I want to find out what (if anything) lies beyond our ordinary perception of the world. Is what we normally take to be the "real world" (or "objective reality", "external reality", etc) actually an illusion like Buddhism and Hinduism claim? If so, can the techniques of Buddhist or Hindu meditation really reveal the "true reality" beyond the illusion of the ordinary world? I would like to find out. I've studied…
Altered states of consciousnes and shamanism are fascinating subjects. I have studied and have experience with a wide variety of altered states and methods for inducing them, from psychedelics to meditation, drumming, strobe lights, flotation tanks, sweat lodges. Of these, I found psychedelics to be by far the most powerful. Nothing else I've ever tried has come remotely close to being even a thousandth as powerful.…
I would also like to suggest substituting the word "altered" with "disturbed". Would you mind telling me your thoughts on this (whether in connection with the above question, or not)?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
When most people sleep, they typically "fall unconscious". That means, they go mindless. Meditation is being mindful. It is actually possible to enter sleep states while being mindful. This is one of many methods for entering lucid dreaming, and I suppose, some folks might call it dream yoga.
Thanks, but I think you're missing the point of this conversation. The parent said: >Being 'bored' is the best part - setting a time to do 'nothing' during the day. There's always something to do, something to see, someone to talk to, but there's rarely 'nothing' to do. implying there is something inherently motivating in finally finding an opportunity to do nothing during the day. For me, that opportunity comes when…
As for what I use lucid dreaming for, I don't use lucid dreaming for much of anything other than a benchmark for clarity of my mind. I don't make a whole lot of use for it. Sometimes I will put my body to sleep when it needs it, but my mind wants to stay active. Sometimes I will use non-meditative visualization techniques to work with dreams in order to pop open the shadow side, but that's not what we're talking about here either.
As for finding opportunity to do nothing, the thing is that in those states of consciousness, nothing is the base experience of reality. Everything else, the doing, the striving, the acting, are forms. It is similar to looking at this webpage and focusing on the spaces between the words than at the words themselves.
I take your inquiry at face value, that you are sincerely asking these questions, and they might come off as trolling but they are not. So I answer just as sincerely though you'll probably think I am coping out: There is nothing in the world that will convince you to meditate. If you are meditating for any "reason" at all, you're not really being mindful of the present moment. There is no "reason" inherent in any experience. That's not to say lots of people have various motivations and "reasons" to meditate, but when you are on that cushion, you let those go for the bullshit that it is.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you, I'm going to check that book out. Like you, I'd like to learn more but the religious aspects are a turnoff. When I think about it, it's hard to believe that improving one's state of mind and mood wouldn't have a number of benefits.
> I'd like to learn more but the religious aspects are a turnoff. This is a shame. Within the frivolous details we debate so much religion holds a wealth of wisdom and value that anyone can apply to their lives and benefit from. I took a similar stance when getting into meditation. I was looking for a way to deal with stress and I was certainly not "religious". I quickly found that modern/western Buddhism is stripped…
This is a shame. Within the frivolous details we debate
so much religion holds a wealth of wisdom and value
that anyone can apply to their lives and benefit from.
I agree: there's a lot of wisdom to be learned from religions.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Altered states of consciousnes and shamanism are fascinating subjects. I have studied and have experience with a wide variety of altered states and methods for inducing them, from psychedelics to meditation, drumming, strobe lights, flotation tanks, sweat lodges. Of these, I found psychedelics to be by far the most powerful. Nothing else I've ever tried has come remotely close to being even a thousandth as powerful.…
Did you find any practical purpose to the "altered" states of consciousness? I would also like to suggest substituting the word "altered" with "disturbed". Would you mind telling me your thoughts on this (whether in connection with the above question, or not)?
Steve Jobs' view on mind expanding drugs might be of interest as well: http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/steve-jobs-lsd-ha...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks, but I think you're missing the point of this conversation. The parent said: >Being 'bored' is the best part - setting a time to do 'nothing' during the day. There's always something to do, something to see, someone to talk to, but there's rarely 'nothing' to do. implying there is something inherently motivating in finally finding an opportunity to do nothing during the day. For me, that opportunity comes when…
I'm not missing the point. I get what he is saying and I see where you are not getting it. You're confusing meditation with "nothing". The mindful experience of "nothing" is different than if you were just to fall asleep. You think you are doing "nothing" when you sleep, but you're actually doing quite a bit. As for what I use lucid dreaming for, I don't use lucid dreaming for much of anything other than a benchmark…
Thank you for giving this conversation an honest chance. I am happy to say that I have a further reply to this, and let's see where it takes us.
The spaces between the letters that you mention, nevertheless consist of pixels. The spaces between the letters, far from being nothing, are full of pixels. Similarly, we do not drop from an empty vacuum into this world – we come from an uterus. I believe that, if this semantic fulness (instead of semantic emptiness) is postulated as fundamental, then we obtain a new system of thought that no longer renders meditation as valuable – at least not for the age-old arguments.
Perhaps I should reveal my stance fully. I do not believe your meditative practice and experiences are disconnected at all from semantic factors, such as assumptions about the nature of the world, reality and mind. In the mean time, metaphysics are notorious for having changed disruptively over time, and given a newer system of thought that postulates fulness as fundamental [note], I wish to explore the extent to which the age-old practice of meditation still makes that much sense.
[note] As far as I can tell, this originated in the newer physics, once the older luminiferous aether had been replaced by the newer plenum.
http://bit.ly/meditationhabits - time of day, position, styles & session length
http://bit.ly/marchmeditationtips - likelihood of continuing meditation, frequency, session length, apps
What we learned:
There doesn't seem to be a correlation between time of day & whether you see benefits. 48% of people on Lift meditate upon waking or in the morning. 2/3 of all survey respondents started feeling benefits within a week regardless of when they meditated.
45% sit on the floor, 30% a chair, one person said they meditate while swimming.
Mediation gets easier after 11 days of daily practice. 90% of people with an 11 day streak went on to have a 12 day streak & that trend continued for 60 days (we didn't look after that). To compare, it takes 14 days to see that trend in the Eat Breakfast habit.
Most people started with 3-5 minutes per session. Average session length we see on Lift is 16.8 minutes.
62% of people who meditated more than 3 days a week used an app compared to 50% of people who meditated 3 days a week or less.
Data comes from Lift data + surveys to Lifters in the Meditate habit. We're running a Meditation Challenge this month & we're learning a lot about this habit a lot of people say is their most important one. You can ping me at @liftapp with more questions.