Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

pastebin.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 182 posts

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#91

Post by tptacek »

michaelochurch wrote: post #89
tptacek wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be working under the delusion that the worst thing that can happen if you lie to your employer is that you might lose your job. No.

For reasons of self-interest, most employers are not going to fuck with their exes' reputations after parting ways. There are exceptions-- sometimes you have to hire legal professionals and very occasionally one might have to hire il legal professionals to make someone do the right thing-- but those are way outside of the norm. If he does good work and still gets fired, it's probably by a boss who had little choice i…

You seem very certain about this. I don't know if I'm as certain as you are about this issue, but my thoughts about this issue have opposite valence.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#92

Post by alt2319 »

auctiontheory wrote: post #8
avar wrote: post #5

Well, you don't have to lie on your resume or on your interview but have you considered just not mentioning it? Unless you're applying for certain types of jobs they're not going to do a background check on you, and you're unlikely to be under any obligation to disclose that you were convicted of computer fraud if you're applying for a computer related job. Also, think about taking jobs in countries that aren't the U…

The US generally won't issue passports to convicted felons. (That's the Google consensus, anyway.)

I believe your bigger issue is that some countries won't allow some convicted felons to enter - particularly Canada.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#93

Post by tptacek »

rms wrote: post #90
tptacek wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be working under the delusion that the worst thing that can happen if you lie to your employer is that you might lose your job. No.

Criminal prosecution for fraud? Does that really happen with any regularity? I think by far the most common consequence of being caught lying about a felony is firing with cause.

I'm not a lawyer but I think a fraud prosecution is very unlikely. However, there are a bunch of torts involved.

The real consequence I'm referring to here though is a firing for cause. Real for-cause firings are rare in our business, so I think we tend to forget that they are a big deal.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#94

Post by csense »

This is actually a problem with how US society works.

It's in society's best interests for someone in OP's position to become a productive member of society again. But if they're eternally refused employment, education, and passport due to the background check, how is someone supposed to recover their life after that?

The problem is cultural, we need to be more forgiving of peoples' past. As more and more of the population becomes more and more searchable, this sort of relaxation is inevitable. But social change takes time.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#95

Post by yep_throwaway »

I typed out my (very long) story, then ended up deleting it. Let me offer some advice, however:

When you fill out applications and are asked "the question", lie. As someone who has very strong ethics and morals, it's hard for me to say that. It is, however, absolutely necessary if you wish to work again.

Eventually, however, somebody will probably find out and you need to be prepared to deal with that.

The first time it happened to me, I was fortunate in that I had a great working/professional relationship with my superiors a few levels "up the ladder" (very large company). When they found out, they called me in and confronted me about it. I told them the absolute truth and also explained why I lied about it. They sent me home, mulled it over for about a week, then called me and told me to come back to work. It was never mentioned again.

The next time it happened, I was offered a job at a company after one short interview. When I filled out the paperwork, I lied, of course. It wasn't very long before they found out about it (and this was a MUCH smaller company). The two owners, however, knew that I was friends with the Mayor, who they were also friends with. They asked the Mayor about whether they should keep me and his response was something to the effect of "I would, he's a helluva lot smarter than any of your other guys". (It probably also helped that my boss is pretty shady anyways).

*

With regard to Google search results, take control of that shit. Start a blog, write awesome shit, post videos on YouTube, participate in mailing lists/forums, etc. Spread your name everywhere you can so that when you are Googled, it's your own stuff that comes up. If you Google me, you'll get tired of clicking "Next Page" long before you find anything negative.

Basically, lie on the paperwork. If you're honest, they're not even going to give you a chance. If you at least get "in the door", work harder than anyone else. Volunteer to work on things nobody else wants to and do the absolute best that you can at everything. Eventually, they WILL find out. Be prepared for that day.

Good luck, it's not easy.

-- 15-year convicted felon

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#96

Post by tptacek »

taligent wrote: post #38
jaysonelliot wrote: post #20

While some larger corporations might not let you through the HR filter, that doesn't need to be the end of the story. For myself as an entrepreneur looking for great developers, I don't give a whit about some dalliances from your youth. In fact, if the exploit was great enough, it might even be a selling point for your creativity and technical skill. Be up front about who you are, and look for startups that will appr…

While some larger corporations might not let you through the HR filter I've worked for quite a few large corporations i.e Fortune 50 and not a single one has done a police record check. Unless you are applying for Boeing, Lockheed Martin, NSA or something similar it frankly is none of their business.

I don't think this is true. The gist of your comment is valuable, in that lots of places don't background check, but checks are in fact pretty common. We see a good cross section of the industry (we're consultants) and I wouldn't be surprised if as many as half did checks.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#98

Post by yep_throwaway »

michaelochurch wrote: post #2

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT legal advice. I am not a lawyer, and there's a hell of a lot of risk in what I'm going to tell you to do. When I was a teenager, someone I knew did something nonviolent but pretty bad (severe academic dishonesty) and had a non-empty answer to the "Discipline Question". You might judge me negatively for keeping such a person as a friend-- and I shouldn't have, but that's another story-- but at…

Government jobs are, obviously, not going to be an option.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#99

Post by mildavw »

We hired a guy who had recently finished 7 years in the clink. After he got out he was freelancing in a shared office space. Worked with other devs there whom we hired or knew. They vouched for him.

He's a great dev, good friend, recently finished a PhD while working full time for us. We'd have been stupid not to hire him for the mistake he made a decade ago.

Don't hide your record.

Network and you get work.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#100

Post by rmc »

osteele wrote: post #30
michaelochurch wrote: post #2

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT legal advice. I am not a lawyer, and there's a hell of a lot of risk in what I'm going to tell you to do. When I was a teenager, someone I knew did something nonviolent but pretty bad (severe academic dishonesty) and had a non-empty answer to the "Discipline Question". You might judge me negatively for keeping such a person as a friend-- and I shouldn't have, but that's another story-- but at…

If you hide it you risk being discharged a month, a year, or five years from now when your employer finds out, and then they aren't referenceable. If I were hiring for a security-related job, I'd consider the poster if he not only disclosed the conviction, but also contextualized it on his cover letter the way that he did in the pastebin, and if he provided some character witnesses (teachers, employers).

But (and correct this ignorant european), but doesn't at will employment in the USA mean that they could be fired st any point for any or no reason anyway? And that's if they were never convicted of anything, right?
Post reply on HN