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Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

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Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#51
I'd look for jobs in academia, non-profits, or startups, where the conviction itself won't be as much of a bar. I'd personally go with startups -- for most roles at most startups it won't be an outright disqualification. Most startups are too stupid/lazy/rushed to do a background check anyway, but if you get caught later, it's worse than if you disclosed it up front, in many cases (haha MIT admissions director who lied on her resume...)

The worst would be low-skill jobs involving trust (e.g. bank teller); the easiest would be high skill jobs involving no trust (game developer or working on open source software). Sysadmin is in the middle. Security positions require more trust, but would also tend to be more forgiving of computer crimes background.

In the long run, for a federal crime, your best bet is a Presidential pardon (not as hard after you've served time, I think, with a long period of productive work experience since then); that's one thing that sucks about fed vs. state crime. If the law itself is challenged later, that could be a route too.

(IANAL.)

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#52
Consider looking for positions at computer security companies. It's an entirely respectable field with a... "training dilemma". Good pay, in need of developers, pragmatic about the background of people who end up in the field. A lot (most? all?) of security professionals start out at least on the grey side of hacking.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#54
post #32

The great thing about this industry is that you can build things on your own. It's tough if you are already having to put in 40+ hours a week just to get by; but if you have real skills you should be able to turn them into something profitable. Perhaps doing penn-testing if you're still into it, or building an income generating product. It's probably also possible to get hired by a startup or through a personal conne…

You have a fabulous username.

Penn-testing today is growing into something it wasn't when I was having fun. The community consists of mixed talent and a trend is growing as more ease-of-use [e.g: nessus, metasploit] tools become available to infosec "pros". That emergent trend (SaaS?) disgusts and repels me because it eliminates one of the more captivating and rewarding elements of vulnerability hunting (the delicious, delicious, research experience). Reverse engineers, devs who are able create on-the-fly solutions, and vx community notwithstanding.

Also, as said in a previous post: my experiences with independent private disclosure is most often a futile waste of time - 'thanks' || ignored || threatened with LE.

WRT building an income generating product: I don't have many unique ideas or any marketing experience. I'm currently working with a friend exploring android os internals and platform development. We're going to throw our project into that market and see how it pans out.

I generally only create things I need to try out an idea or get something done. This project strays away from that principle so it will be interesting to see whether or not the venture is fruitful.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#55

While some larger corporations might not let you through the HR filter, that doesn't need to be the end of the story. For myself as an entrepreneur looking for great developers, I don't give a whit about some dalliances from your youth. In fact, if the exploit was great enough, it might even be a selling point for your creativity and technical skill. Be up front about who you are, and look for startups that will appr…

While some larger corporations might not let you through the HR filter I've worked for quite a few large corporations i.e Fortune 50 and not a single one has done a police record check. Unless you are applying for Boeing, Lockheed Martin, NSA or something similar it frankly is none of their business.

Anything in the financial sector will get you fingerprinted and at least a cursory FBI records check.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#57
After almost 20 years in the industry my considered advice is pursue another career.

That might not be the answer you want to hear but after thinking about it a bit that's my honest advice. Here's the reasons:

- Of all the employers I've had not one of them would have hired you.

- If somehow you "snuck in" and your past came to light, you would have been fired anywhere I've worked.

- Unless I knew you really well personally (as in friends for multiple years), I wouldn't hire you, based purely on your past. It's nothing personal, you might be a great, smart person. But it's a matter of the odds; your past makes you a risk that's not worth taking unless I know you well enough to be certain that you would never do anything like that again, and there's just no way you're going to convince me of that through an interview process.

The last one is the real sticking point, because I know what it's like to be a young kid on BBSes and the internet and wanting to try to break things, etc. But even with that understanding, I still wouldn't trust you unless I knew you really well.

And that's why I'd recommend pursuing another career. And you should think about this carefully because being a convicted felon (and I'm assuming it was a felony charge) will stop you from being able to do a lot of other careers. Honestly I'd do some research on careers for people with felony convictions.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#58
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While some larger corporations might not let you through the HR filter I've worked for quite a few large corporations i.e Fortune 50 and not a single one has done a police record check. Unless you are applying for Boeing, Lockheed Martin, NSA or something similar it frankly is none of their business.

Anything in the financial sector will get you fingerprinted and at least a cursory FBI records check.

Quite true. I worked for large digital agencies for much of my career until now, and while we may or may not do our own background checks (I don't know since I was not in HR), I've had a number of clients in the financial sector over the years. If I had been unable to pass a background check with a client, it would have been detrimental to my position at the agency, to say the least.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#59
I would hire you at my company for the following reason:

- Your ravenous intellectual curiosity. Sure it got you into trouble, but there aren't enough people with a hunger to learn and tackle challenges.

I would not hire you if I didn't believe

- You were truly remorseful - You wouldn't get bored in a straight gig and become a liability to the company

I believe that you can use history as a good predictor of future behavior, but a mistake someone made 10 years ago as a youth should be past the statute of limitations. Let me know if I can help...

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#60
post #17

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT legal advice. I am not a lawyer, and there's a hell of a lot of risk in what I'm going to tell you to do. When I was a teenager, someone I knew did something nonviolent but pretty bad (severe academic dishonesty) and had a non-empty answer to the "Discipline Question". You might judge me negatively for keeping such a person as a friend-- and I shouldn't have, but that's another story-- but at…

Ahh yes. The good ol' hat problem. I never considered remaining silent about it, but most places around here do CORI background checks with the information on CV so It is hard to avoid. Also, a simple google query of my name pulls up quite a few embarrassing news articles. Imagine the fun it was to explain the situation to your spouses parents after they have googled you. Thank you for your response. I will give non-…

If you're saying anybody who Googles you can find out about your record, it would obviously be silly to lie about it. If your employer somehow fails to do that during the hiring process, somebody will eventually do it after you start working there.
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