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Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

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Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#91

Post by redblacktree »

dminor wrote: post #38
nbouscal wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It exists, but if you read past where you clipped the quote, you notice that all he's saying is that in the valley demand is extremely high. Demand in other places is significantly lower. (Speaking partly from personal experience, as I do not live in Silicon Valley.)

I'm in the Portland area and recruiters call/email constantly. I have a hard time believing it's not the same for any major metro area.

I agree. I'm in Indianapolis and there is plenty of demand for developers here as well.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#92

Post by smokeyj »

esbwhat wrote: post #82
smokeyj wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jokes like that foster the uncomfortable boys club environment Maybe they make Adria uncomfortable. Maybe they make you uncomfortable. They don't make all women uncomfortable, and you should stop pretending you speak on behalf of women everywhere. Arguing that some humor should be saved for when women aren't around seems like the antithesis of equality. If anything it explains why a "boy club" would ever exist. To…

Bullshit. It's not about whether ALL women are uncomfortable. Of course not all women are uncomfortable. So should we only frown upon behaviours that make every single member of a minority uncomfortable? Some is enough.

By not wearing a burqa you make muslims uncomfortable. Better cover up!

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#93

Post by orangethirty »

MartinCron wrote: post #42
orangethirty wrote: post #19

I think it would be a great resolution to the problem if all parties involved talked, apologized, and moved on. Even if no jobs are given back.

The problem isn't even with the original parties anymore, all of whom seem to be reasonable people. It's the mostly anonymous commentariat who are using the facts to support previously held intractable positions.

Yes, that is right. My opinion is that a positive act from parties involved would simply quiet down the current wave of hate.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#95

Post by esbwhat »

smokeyj wrote: post #92
esbwhat wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. It's not about whether ALL women are uncomfortable. Of course not all women are uncomfortable. So should we only frown upon behaviours that make every single member of a minority uncomfortable? Some is enough.

By not wearing a burqa you make muslims uncomfortable. Better cover up!

Yes, it is such a fucking inconvenience not making juvenile and unprofessional jokes at a conference where you are supposed to represent your employer.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#96

Post by esbwhat »

IvyMike wrote: post #87
esbwhat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don't think Adria overreacted. It was a microaggression. Jokes like that foster the uncomfortable boys club environment that is so inherent to tech. Were the jokes explicitly sexist? No, but in an industry that has more than just a bad track record, stuff like that is not okay. Context matters.

The term microagression is weird. If it was "micro", a proportional response would have also have been micro. Public shaming seems out of proportion. And "aggression" implies directed hostility or malicious intent, neither of which seems to be the case here. > Jokes like that foster the uncomfortable boys club environment that is so inherent to tech. I have to simply disagree here. There are other things that may fos…

The idea of a microaggression is that it's many small things you are exposed to consistently, and a lot. The kind of things people will say "lighten up, it's just a joke" to, because they see it as an individual incident. (which incidentally has been happening in this thread, a lot)

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#97

Post by esbwhat »

MartinCron wrote: post #88
esbwhat wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? She reported the microaggression to the relevant organizers through a public channel. I don't see the problem?

The problem was the extremely public nature of the channel. It wasn't speaking softly to the usher that someone was being inappropriate and unprofessional, it was shouting into a megaphone that someone was being inappropriate and unprofessional. It's the "megaphone" part that I think is out-of-scale. If we're going to be a civilized community, then gentle, discreet correction should be the societal norm.

I don't think she had any obligation to raise the issue quietly. Making things public works. Unless people start calling out this kind of behaviour in a public manner, there will be no pressure for anyone to change anything. I think this is just a variant of a tone argument basically.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#98

Post by rabino »

esbwhat wrote: post #80
rabino wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You can't make a dongle joke in public because of... what? Are women so fragile and weak that they are offended by a mildly sexual joke? Who's the sexist again?

>Who's the sexist again? most of the time, the person asking that sort of question Nice misrepresentation of what I said, by the way. It's not about the joke, it's about what's behind it. Women are frequently objectified in jokes, and the Technology industry hasn't exactly been the most welcoming to women. When you make a sexual joke in front of a woman in this context, she might feel inclined to think about what's b…

Because sexual jokes are exclusive for men? For some reason a dingle joke is offensive to women, but it's ok between dudes? Sorry, I _really_ don't understand the argument. I'm no trying to be funny or anything. I live in a place where we don't have a big problem with sexism, so I'm trying to understand what's going on.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#99

Post by smokeyj »

esbwhat wrote: post #95
smokeyj wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By not wearing a burqa you make muslims uncomfortable. Better cover up!

Yes, it is such a fucking inconvenience not making juvenile and unprofessional jokes at a conference where you are supposed to represent your employer.

Is it so hard to cover your face?

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#100

Post by esbwhat »

rabino wrote: post #98
esbwhat wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Who's the sexist again? most of the time, the person asking that sort of question Nice misrepresentation of what I said, by the way. It's not about the joke, it's about what's behind it. Women are frequently objectified in jokes, and the Technology industry hasn't exactly been the most welcoming to women. When you make a sexual joke in front of a woman in this context, she might feel inclined to think about what's b…

Because sexual jokes are exclusive for men? For some reason a dingle joke is offensive to women, but it's ok between dudes? Sorry, I _really_ don't understand the argument. I'm no trying to be funny or anything. I live in a place where we don't have a big problem with sexism, so I'm trying to understand what's going on.

Again, context matters. When a man makes a sexual joke and a woman makes a sexual joke, it's not the same thing because there are different implications to it.

Women are often sexualized and/or objectified, specifically by men. When a man makes a sexual joke, even if he is not directly sexualizing a woman, that can make some women uncomfortable, because of the societal context behind it.

Tech conferences already have kind of a bad reputation towards building an inviting atmosphere for women. Now imagine you are in a place where you might feel a little bit vulnerable, and you hear something like that. It's easy to take it the wrong way, regardless of the intent behind the joke. All this is completely ignoring that in a professional settings, these kinds of jokes are inappropriate anyway.

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