Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart

channel9.msdn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

1–10 of 69 posts

Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart

#1

Post by michaelwww »

Lars Bak: To contrast these two languages, TypeScript is a safe bet... where Dart is trying to change some of the fundamental issues with JavaScript. I feel, from a computer science background, I still have problems that you can design applications with libraries where you can monkey patch the libraries when you get up running. I find that very, very disturbing when you are trying to write big applications. [with TypeScript] you end up in the same mess.

Anders Hejlsberg: Everything you say and more I will agree with. The question is not whether JavaScript is broken. The question is whether it is broken enough to merit being replaced by something else.

Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart
channel9.msdn.com

Re: Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart

#3

Post by michaelwww »

Lars Bak: To contrast these two languages, TypeScript is a safe bet... where Dart is trying to change some of the fundamental issues with JavaScript. I feel, from a computer science background, I still have problems that you can design applications with libraries where you can monkey patch the libraries when you get up running. I find that very, very disturbing when you are trying to write big applications. [with TypeScript] you end up in the same mess.

Anders Hejlsberg: Everything you say and more I will agree with. The question is not whether JavaScript is broken. The question is whether it is broken enough to merit being replaced by something else.

Re: Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart

#4

Post by pnt »

I feel like Dart's emphasis on a fast but chrome-only vm has hindered it's adoption. I understand their goal, unlike most compile-to-js languages, was a language more amenable to fast implementation. However, I think the initial community reaction would have been more positive if Dart was positioned first as a language that compiled to js, with the added benefit that it runs significantly faster on Chrome.

Re: Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart

#5

Post by michaelwww »

pnt wrote: post #4

I feel like Dart's emphasis on a fast but chrome-only vm has hindered it's adoption. I understand their goal, unlike most compile-to-js languages, was a language more amenable to fast implementation. However, I think the initial community reaction would have been more positive if Dart was positioned first as a language that compiled to js, with the added benefit that it runs significantly faster on Chrome.

I agree. They stumbled initially because the "hello world" JavaScript output was something huge (17,000 LOC if I remember correctly.) But I think they are recovering nicely and people will notice.

Re: Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart

#6

Post by dragonwriter »

pnt wrote: post #4

I feel like Dart's emphasis on a fast but chrome-only vm has hindered it's adoption. I understand their goal, unlike most compile-to-js languages, was a language more amenable to fast implementation. However, I think the initial community reaction would have been more positive if Dart was positioned first as a language that compiled to js, with the added benefit that it runs significantly faster on Chrome.

> I feel like Dart's emphasis on a fast but chrome-only vm has hindered it's adoption.

Dart's VM isn't Chrome-only, its open source, and available both standalone and bundled into Chromium.

> However, I think the initial community reaction would have been more positive if Dart was positioned first as a language that compiled to js, with the added benefit that it runs significantly faster on Chrome.

Reaction might have been more positive in the short run if it was sold as a on-top-of-JS language rather than part of a long-term plan to build something to replace (or complement) JS as a language for which browsers would have a a built-in, language-specific VM. However, I think that even if initial reaction might have been better with such a response, Google clearly did the right thing by being up front about their vision.

Re: Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart

#7

Post by pnt »

dragonwriter wrote: post #6
pnt wrote: post #4

I feel like Dart's emphasis on a fast but chrome-only vm has hindered it's adoption. I understand their goal, unlike most compile-to-js languages, was a language more amenable to fast implementation. However, I think the initial community reaction would have been more positive if Dart was positioned first as a language that compiled to js, with the added benefit that it runs significantly faster on Chrome.

> I feel like Dart's emphasis on a fast but chrome-only vm has hindered it's adoption. Dart's VM isn't Chrome-only, its open source, and available both standalone and bundled into Chromium. > However, I think the initial community reaction would have been more positive if Dart was positioned first as a language that compiled to js, with the added benefit that it runs significantly faster on Chrome. Reaction might hav…

> Dart's VM isn't Chrome-only

I meant that dart is chrome-only in practice. I don't know of any other browser vendor that bundles the dart vm, including the few browsers based on chromium like rockmelt or 360.

> However, I think that even if initial reaction might have been better with such a response, Google clearly did the right thing by being up front about their vision.

I can appreciate Google's directness regarding Dart's intention. However, from a web developer's perspective, Dart's multiple backends is very unappealing. I hesitate to adopt even a language like clojurescript or coffeescript because of debugging barriers and potential bugs in the language's crevices (though these problems are diminishing with things like source map support).

Re: Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart

#9

Post by ttrreeww »

pnt wrote: post #7
dragonwriter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like Dart's emphasis on a fast but chrome-only vm has hindered it's adoption. Dart's VM isn't Chrome-only, its open source, and available both standalone and bundled into Chromium. > However, I think the initial community reaction would have been more positive if Dart was positioned first as a language that compiled to js, with the added benefit that it runs significantly faster on Chrome. Reaction might hav…

> Dart's VM isn't Chrome-only I meant that dart is chrome-only in practice. I don't know of any other browser vendor that bundles the dart vm, including the few browsers based on chromium like rockmelt or 360. > However, I think that even if initial reaction might have been better with such a response, Google clearly did the right thing by being up front about their vision. I can appreciate Google's directness regard…

Dart is Google's Silverlight.

Re: Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart

#10

Post by seanalltogether »

Can anyone explain what the difference between TypeScript and ECMAScript 4 are? I know ECMAScript 4 was abandoned for some reason, but from the few examples I've seen of Typescript it looks very similar. Did the js community just need a few more years to come around to the ideas?
Post reply on HN