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Ubuntu tapped by China for national operating system

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Ubuntu tapped by China for national operating system

#61

Post by w1ntermute »

cheapsteak wrote: post #49
w1ntermute wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with the Chinese international students being bright (which they generally are) or malleable (which they're not - they're just studying machines). It has to do with the fact that there are a ton of Chinese websites that only work in IE.

That is a good point, although I think it's more of Windows-only programs like PPS, a TV and movie streaming app that fills the Netflix void, except it's free so everyone and their mother uses it

Yes, there is software as well. Forgot about that.

Re: Ubuntu tapped by China for national operating system

#62

Post by coldtea »

staticfish wrote: post #59
mtgx wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I think most Chinese living there have bought the government's argument that if any of the stuff you mentioned above would not exist, it would "disrupt" the "unity" of their society. So everyone must stay in line for the "greater good", even if violent action is necessary against some individuals. What's the scariest thing in such situations is not one tyrant or another. If only that was the case, it w…

That's an interesting point, but it's really difficult when you talk to a Chinese person and they flatly deny tiananmen square, or that their government is suppressing their own freedom. When you go to prove it on the internet, it still seems like they just do not want to believe. I find that very difficult to deal with. I'm not going to win friends here, but it's much like talking with an Israeli.

>I'm not going to win friends here, but it's much like talking with an Israeli.

Or an American, for that matter.

Americans still believe they are a "progressive" and model nation for freedom.

Segregation was merely 40 years ago. People go to jail for decades for procession of marijuana. They execute teenagers. They execute (period -- almost all western countries have stopped this shit). People still are told (and ...believe!) that Truman dropped nuclear bombs on civilians "to end the war" and that "his hands were tied". The number of incarcerated people is record breaking for any nation on earth -- and the vast majority of them are black. Plus -- people still believe they have the right (or even ...obligation) to intervene, that is invade, other countries, either to "bring democracy" or because they have "strategic interests" there.

Re: Ubuntu tapped by China for national operating system

#63

Post by staticfish »

coldtea wrote: post #60
staticfish wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. * Tiananmen square. Murders against any form of civil disobedience. * Secret and non-secret alliances with North Korea. * Occasional acts of aggression on Japan. * Great firewall, general suppression of information from citizens. * Massive amounts of political corruption. * Human rights violations aplenty. * Causing an environmental catastrophe. Fucking up the entire planet in the process. * Tibet, Taiwan…

> Tiananmen square. Murders against any form of civil disobedience. Kent state shootings. And lots of similar actions, from the Wounded Knee incident to the Wako siege. > Secret and non-secret alliances with North Korea. Secret and non-secret alliances with Pinochet, Videla, Saudi Arabia and pretty much every corrupted government and dictatorship on earth. > Occasional acts of aggression on Japan. Constant acts of ag…

Wait, I'm British. You were talking about Britain. Why did we suddenly switch to the USA?

Also, half of your rebuttals are inaccurate and half are not comparable in the slightest.

No, there is no western version of the horrors of "Tank Man". A lot of the Chinese i've spoken to do not even know this happened, and the other half refuse to see it as a problem. You're a textbook example.

The USA isn't the greatest country for a lot of this stuff, I'll admit, but at least it doesn't go as far as to commit the terribly inhumane atrocities of China. There is no suppression of readily available information (blocked search queries, etc).

The enviromental stuff doesn't really hold up either. Yes, the US is a terrible polluter of the world, but in Los Angeles, arguably one of the most polluted cities in NA, you can look outside your window and see further than 100 meters. This is not the case in many Chinese cities.

The wars that have spanned the last five decades (Middle East, Asia, South America) have been brutal, bloody, and in many case unwarranted, but again, this is nothing to the blatant and open genocides caused by the Chinese. Half of the country is in extreme poverty. Examples: Three-Year Famine, Mao's "1000 Flowers Bloom".

Re: Ubuntu tapped by China for national operating system

#64

Post by laumars »

jff wrote: post #34
laumars wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canonical aren't enabling anything. They just repackage open source software (bar their custom themes and Unity). If the Chinese populous don't like any of the governments additions, then those users can grab the binaries / source code directly and roll their own customisations.

> If the Chinese populous don't like any of the governments additions, then those users can grab the binaries / source code directly and roll their own customisations. If the repos are accessible.

Indeed. I did consider that when I made my post but came to the conclusion that China would have an impossible job blocking every PPA and tar-ball mirror.

And even if they do manage that, then people will just redistribute it offline once one guy has downloaded the content via his proxy / VPN.

Re: Ubuntu tapped by China for national operating system

#65

Post by staticfish »

coldtea wrote: post #56
kevincrane wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Britain hasn't been repressive in this sense for at least the last ~250 years.

> Yeah, Britain hasn't been repressive in this sense for at least the last ~250 years 250 years? They had colonies all over the world until merely 50 years ago. Doing stuff from direct slavery to mass executions, to fighting natives asking for freedom with submachine guns. And they still interfere in their ex-colonies politics (not to mention being the US lackeys and partners in all kinds of invasions). They even che…

There is no comparison to China's Taiwan: "That should be China's attitude". Also Tibet. Clearly not a Chinese country but of course that doesn't stop them.

Re: Ubuntu tapped by China for national operating system

#66

Post by staticfish »

coldtea wrote: post #62
staticfish wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting point, but it's really difficult when you talk to a Chinese person and they flatly deny tiananmen square, or that their government is suppressing their own freedom. When you go to prove it on the internet, it still seems like they just do not want to believe. I find that very difficult to deal with. I'm not going to win friends here, but it's much like talking with an Israeli.

> I'm not going to win friends here, but it's much like talking with an Israeli. Or an American, for that matter. Americans still believe they are a "progressive" and model nation for freedom. Segregation was merely 40 years ago. People go to jail for decades for procession of marijuana. They execute teenagers. They execute (period -- almost all western countries have stopped this shit). People still are told (and ..…

>Americans still believe they are a "progressive" and model nation for freedom.

Not all Americans. Look at HN or any semi-educated social circle.

A lot of your points just bring up tit-for-tat historical talking points. Yes a lot of countries have done a lot of terrible things throughout history, especially the west, but we're talking about now. 2013.

Today I just read an article describing how the Chinese have just sent 12 escaped North Koreans back to NK to be welcomed by torture and generations the same fate.

2013 China is a disgusting example of a modern and humane country.

Re: Ubuntu tapped by China for national operating system

#67

Post by cobrausn »

coldtea wrote: post #37

I take offense with the following part of the article: "Other repressive nations that have developed local versions of Linux include North Korea, which built the KDE-based Red Star OS to help wean it as a nation off of an unfortunate dependence on Windows made by the capitalists over at Microsoft." China is a "repressive nation"? Says who? Britain, the leader in colonialist aggressions, mass slavery and blatant inter…

Your first two complaints about Britain might have been true a couple hundred years ago.

In the meantime, China still has Gulags.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-21822684

Re: Ubuntu tapped by China for national operating system

#68

Post by Strang »

coldtea wrote: post #53
Strang wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, China is a "repressive nation." Especially when it comes to technology, e.g., "The Great Firewall." No, Britain is not a "repressive nation." The British government surely takes some repressive actions, but not to such a degree as to be labeled a repressive nation.

> No, Britain is not a "repressive nation." The British government surely takes some repressive actions, but not to such a degree as to be labeled a repressive nation. Are we talking about the same "CCTV everywhere" nation? The same "lackeys of the united states --GW Bush etc-- policy and partners in war crimes" nation?

Yes, we are. Britain is not perfect, but it does not deserve to be lumped in with China as a "repressive nation."

In my opinion, this style of argument is not helpful. It reminds me of this quote:

"To say that the CIA and the KGB engage in similar practices is the equivalent of saying that the man who pushes an old lady into the path of a hurtling bus is not to be distinguished from the man who pushes an old lady out of the path of a hurtling bus: on the grounds that, after all, in both cases someone is pushing old ladies around." -William F. Buckley

Re: Ubuntu tapped by China for national operating system

#69

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #37

I take offense with the following part of the article: "Other repressive nations that have developed local versions of Linux include North Korea, which built the KDE-based Red Star OS to help wean it as a nation off of an unfortunate dependence on Windows made by the capitalists over at Microsoft." China is a "repressive nation"? Says who? Britain, the leader in colonialist aggressions, mass slavery and blatant inter…

[deleted]
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