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Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

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Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

#71

Post by mamcx »

IheartApplesDix wrote: post #39
barney54 wrote: post #9

This is some pretty deceptive marketing. Apple's data centers still run on coal in places like North Carolina because that's is what is producing the electricity on the grid. Their renewable projects produce a decent amount of electricity, but one of the most critical issues of the electrical grid is stability and solar, even with the fuel cells does not provide enough electricity on cloudy days or over night. Solar,…

Deceptive marketing is what made Apple great. They're selling a culture, not tools.

In that case is not deceptive. They are selling the culture, and you know. But if you wish them to sell (or focus) in something else, despite the fact they are selling the culture (in your words), is not their fault!

Deception is say something and do otherwise...

BTW, I don't think Apple is deceptive. Google? Yeah, but Apple is very upfront: They sell things at high-value, you get into the culture, things are they way -probably the better, if you agree-, their focus is design. Is not cristal clear that now?

Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

#72

Post by jws »

Xuzz wrote: post #49
adventured wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their North Carolina datacenter isn't getting even a tiny fraction of its power from solar. So I'm not sure what they're calling renewable energy. It's basically a flat out lie.

How do you know that more about this than Apple does? I don't see any reason to believe they're lying, from what you said?

He doesn't. The energy at the NC datacenter is a combination of solar, fuel cells driven by biogas†, and grid power offset with purchased clean energy credits‡.

␄

† This doesn't mean that the methane molecules entering the fuel cell came from the biogas facility. The biogas gets pumped into the natural gas system, and gas comes out at the Apple spigot, but no one tags and sorts the methane molecules in between. That would be silly.

‡ Which means they pay a premium to cause renewable energy to be produced. If tagging molecules was silly in the gas section, there isn't even a physical thing you could tag on the grid. The electrons only move back and forth a few inches in the wires, and joules aren't “real”. A lot of the joules going into that grid are cheap coal, a tiny bit of them are the more expensive renewables. Apple is paying to put enough renewables in to cover their use.

Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

#73

Post by tacticus »

barney54 wrote: post #10
josh2600 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't generating the power... It's moving it.

As well as storing the energy so have enough electricity when demand is high.

Copy the UK perhaps?

Large hydro dams that get water pumped into them via the renewable and then discharge when needed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_Reserve_Service

Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

#74

Post by gilgoomesh »

adventured wrote: post #47
smackfu wrote: post #5

More info: http://www.apple.com/environment/renewable-energy/ It seems like the North Carolina one is home-grown solar, the Oregon one is hydroelectric (as are most datacenters in Oregon), and the California one is (purchased) wind power.

Their North Carolina datacenter isn't getting even a tiny fraction of its power from solar. So I'm not sure what they're calling renewable energy. It's basically a flat out lie.

It's getting at least 10% of its 20MW from the first of 2 solar sites.

Apple's Maiden County site is designed to use about 20MW of total power:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57415501-76/apple-slaps-ba...

They currently source 60% of that onsite (the rest of their power is sourced through the grid).

http://www.apple.com/environment/renewable-energy/

What do they have onsite? 10MW of fuel-cell power and a 20MW solar plant. That means that even if the fuel cells are running non-stop at capacity, they're sourcing at least 10% from the first of their two solar sites (the second will be operational later this year).

At 2MW, that would have the solar cells operating at 10% capacity factor. Typical capacity factor for solar cell installations is 20% so the actual contribution from solar is likely closer to 15-20% of the data center's total power.

Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

#75

Post by plugger »

SenorWilson wrote: post #67
plugger wrote: post #66

Personally I'm more interested in WHAT they're running in these data centers. I suspect it's not wall to wall Mac Mini's. So what's Apple's back end running on?

Here's a possible answers: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/09/apple_maiden_data_ce... Possibly giving HP some money :)

Cheers for the link. Now I wonder what they're running on from a software perspective.

Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

#76

Post by skytalon »

This is a good thing they are doing. However, I wonder why they have so many different power adapters for their MBP, MBA and rMBP's. Each one is going to go into a landfill one day and Apple could certainly design it so that they reduce the environmental impact that comes with creating more stuff of this kind that is so avoidable.

Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

#77

Post by r00fus »

skytalon wrote: post #76

This is a good thing they are doing. However, I wonder why they have so many different power adapters for their MBP, MBA and rMBP's. Each one is going to go into a landfill one day and Apple could certainly design it so that they reduce the environmental impact that comes with creating more stuff of this kind that is so avoidable.

wtf are you talking about? Until late last year for the past 6 years before that, they had exactly one adapter profile - magsafe. Recently they added a 2nd profile, and introduced an converter so old bricks can still be reused (which I'm doing right now). You can even use an underpowered brick - don't expect your high-wattage MBP to charge as fast, but it works.

Apple is one of the good guys here. Compare/contrast with Sony or Dell - it's night & day.

Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

#78

Post by marshray »

jws wrote: post #72
Xuzz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that more about this than Apple does? I don't see any reason to believe they're lying, from what you said?

He doesn't. The energy at the NC datacenter is a combination of solar, fuel cells driven by biogas†, and grid power offset with purchased clean energy credits‡. ␄ † This doesn't mean that the methane molecules entering the fuel cell came from the biogas facility. The biogas gets pumped into the natural gas system, and gas comes out at the Apple spigot, but no one tags and sorts the methane molecules in between. That…

Apple is paying to put enough renewables in to cover their use

How is this different than what the rest of us call "the power bill"?

Is there some higher rate you can choose to pay for renewable Joules?

Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

#79

Post by marshray »

nilsbunger wrote: post #43
rfurlong wrote: post #4

This is great, but I bet apple's suppliers and manufacturers aren't anywhere close to this level of renewable energy.

Data centers are one of the fastest growing power consumers, something like 1.5-2% of all power today (eg http://www.analyticspress.com/datacenters.html ). We should all be excited that Facebook, Google, Apple et al are seriously working on reducing that impact. Clearly there's a lot more to be done (manufacturing, transportation, etc), but I don't think that undermines the progress being made in datacenters.

I wonder how much of the growth of data centers is due to people moving their computational workload "out of the closet" and into "the cloud"?

If cloud virtualization and app hosting is truly a significant driver of data center growth, it seems likely that DCs represent a category shifting and a net reduction of power consumption. So someone concerned with global or national overall energy consumption shouldn't want anyone "working on reducing that impact", they'd want that impact DCs increased.

From your linked report:

Growth in the installed base of servers in data centers had already begun to slow by early 2007 because of virtualization and other factors. Growth in the installed base of servers in data centers had already begun to slow by early 2007 because of virtualization and other factors. The 2008 financial crisis, the associated economic slowdown, and further improvements in virtualization led to a significant reduction in actual server installed base by 2010 compared to the IDC installed base forecast published in 2007

Also, perhaps more directly:

Because cloud computing installations typically have much higher server utilization levels and infrastructure efficiencies than do in-house data centers (with PUEs for some specific facilities lower than 1.1) increased adoption of cloud architectures will result in lower electricity use than if the same computing services were delivered using more conventional approaches.

Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy

#80

Post by singlow »

marshray wrote: post #78
jws wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't. The energy at the NC datacenter is a combination of solar, fuel cells driven by biogas†, and grid power offset with purchased clean energy credits‡. ␄ † This doesn't mean that the methane molecules entering the fuel cell came from the biogas facility. The biogas gets pumped into the natural gas system, and gas comes out at the Apple spigot, but no one tags and sorts the methane molecules in between. That…

Apple is paying to put enough renewables in to cover their use How is this different than what the rest of us call "the power bill"? Is there some higher rate you can choose to pay for renewable Joules?

yes
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