What really happened at PyCon 2013
21–30 of 109 posts
Re: What really happened at PyCon 2013
#22Thank you for posting this. I wasn't at PyCon 2013, but I really wish the discussion would get back to the fact that 99% of what happens when technical people get together is positive and cool. It's really sad that the ridiculous 1% gets so much attention. I actually don't think technology people are that bad, not as a class. Most types of ambitious male business people are a lot more vulgar and perverse than the tec…
Totally agree. So much going on today makes a bad name for everybody in the startup/tech community :{
I decided to promote my card game: https://twitter.com/MichaelOChurch/status/314934411223252995
I think the PlayHaven guy will be fine. All he needs to do is say, "I'm the Dongle Guy". Adria didn't deserve the Internet hatred (which probably came mostly from trolls and assholes, not tech people) but her getting fired wasn't unreasonable. If you're a tech evangelist, your job is PR and you ought to know that public shaming is Seriously Not Cool.
Re: What really happened at PyCon 2013
#23[deleted]
It's a sad commentary on how corporations work that most of us, viscerally, knew this to be impossible. Reversing a termination-- even an unjust one-- doesn't happen. Executives can't actually admit to a mistake like that. Backtrack on a wrong decision? What are you, some kind of communist? If you're the type who actually admits that you're wrong (which, ya know, happens to all of us) you don't get to be an executive.
The best we can hope for is that the guy gets a decent severance and that someone hires him at a "Dongle Guy Premium".
Re: What really happened at PyCon 2013
#24[deleted]
Amanda's thread is here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5419071
Re: What really happened at PyCon 2013
#25Thank you for posting this. I wasn't at PyCon 2013, but I really wish the discussion would get back to the fact that 99% of what happens when technical people get together is positive and cool. It's really sad that the ridiculous 1% gets so much attention. I actually don't think technology people are that bad, not as a class. Most types of ambitious male business people are a lot more vulgar and perverse than the tec…
That's an interesting point. I don't have any real basis to generalize, but I have been in a number of situations where business people think that tech people are too politically correct. Coming from a general view that tech isn't really a role model in that category to begin with, that was surprising to encounter. My limited time in Europe suggests that European culture on the whole is less attentive on this subject…
The only exception I can think of is concerning the holocaust.
EDIT: Anyway, I can recommend anyone to live in another culture for some time in their life. First you will feel alienated or even offended by many of the things you hear and see. However if you look deep enough (and many people don't) you will understand that neither your culture nor theirs is right.
Re: What really happened at PyCon 2013
#26Thank you for posting this. I wasn't at PyCon 2013, but I really wish the discussion would get back to the fact that 99% of what happens when technical people get together is positive and cool. It's really sad that the ridiculous 1% gets so much attention. I actually don't think technology people are that bad, not as a class. Most types of ambitious male business people are a lot more vulgar and perverse than the tec…
Re: What really happened at PyCon 2013
#27[deleted]
Um... I think you commented on the wrong thread. This one's ACTUALLY about PyCon Amanda's thread is here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5419071
Moving to -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5419071
Re: What really happened at PyCon 2013
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's an interesting point. I don't have any real basis to generalize, but I have been in a number of situations where business people think that tech people are too politically correct. Coming from a general view that tech isn't really a role model in that category to begin with, that was surprising to encounter. My limited time in Europe suggests that European culture on the whole is less attentive on this subject…
The truth, which is ugly, is that the white-collar Work culture that has existed for over 200 years is based on some extremely sexist assumptions. It's designed in a way that makes it very difficult for women to fit in, in any stable and reliable way. Additionally, most of the things about Work that make it hard for women are also deeply defective attributes (e.g. male dominance hierarchies) of it that are maladaptiv…
>It's designed in a way that makes it very difficult for women to fit in, in any stable and reliable way. Additionally
You can't just make a statement, not provide evidence, and then say "additionally...". You haven't proven your first point.
What sexist assumptions is white-collar Work [sic] culture based on?
And how is it designed such that it is difficult for women to fit in?
>the reason there are fewer women in technology than the more defective culture of banking, is that technology's appeal is to risk-seekers and idealists
This is such a ridiculous claim I don't even know where to begin. First off, I can tell you've never been anywhere near a trading floor, or a commercial bank for that matter. The entire industry is based on risk. What do you think trading is? The calculated harnessing of risk. You make bets. That is all. Pure risk. FAR more risky than technology. And further the proportion of people who are taking risks in finance is MUCH higher than the proportion who are taking risks in technology. There's only one founder per company in tech; there are 100 traders for every founder in a bank.
>To the extent that technology has problems, most of that comes from tech executives who swoop in to take advantage of idealistic (and socially awkward) tech people, then encourage an imbalanced and nasty culture.
Take advantage HOW?
And HOW does that create the problems we're currently seeing in tech?
I don't like the way you speak in platitudes. Completely devoid of content. I don't know who you are, I know you have a reputation, though, and I am ready to weather a storm in the name of truth.
Re: What really happened at PyCon 2013
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
The truth, which is ugly, is that the white-collar Work culture that has existed for over 200 years is based on some extremely sexist assumptions. It's designed in a way that makes it very difficult for women to fit in, in any stable and reliable way. Additionally, most of the things about Work that make it hard for women are also deeply defective attributes (e.g. male dominance hierarchies) of it that are maladaptiv…
Is this a troll? I don't know your history, but I've heard that you have one, so... If this is a troll, someone let me know, please. Otherwise... >It's designed in a way that makes it very difficult for women to fit in, in any stable and reliable way. Additionally You can't just make a statement, not provide evidence, and then say "additionally...". You haven't proven your first point. What sexist assumptions is whit…
Only one? I have, like, at least five or six, my friend.
What sexist assumptions is white-collar Work [sic] culture based on? And how is it designed such that it is difficult for women to fit in?
Dedication and ability are assessed, in most corporations, based on antiquated, counterproductive, and fascistic reliability measures that disfavor, for one example, taking maternity (or paternity) leave or dedicating substantial energy to childcare. For a variety of reasons, some cultural, reproduction and child-raising ends up taking more of a woman's time than a man's.
It's almost impossible to take 5 years out of the career game and come back in with the standing you had when you left. While that's not sexist per se, it's incredibly fucking inhumane, and happens to inflict more harm on women.
First off, I can tell you've never been anywhere near a trading floor, or a commercial bank for that matter. The entire industry is based on risk. What do you think trading is? The calculated harnessing of risk. You make bets. That is all. Pure risk. FAR more risky than technology.
Oh, come on. You really think making $250,000 plus commission is "risky"? Yes, if you have a bad year and the firm isn't doing well, you might get fired. Here, "fired" means you get a shit bonus, and 4 months to find another job, usually a promotion. Yeah, that's risk all right.
I know enough about finance to know what I'm talking about here. I'm not denigrating financial professionals. I've worked in a few Wall Street jobs, and liked most of the people. But it's not risky to work there. Risk (with others' funds) is part of the operational calculus but it's not personally risky to be an employee.
Sure, there's financial risk (again, with others' money) involved, but you have much bigger risks as a technology founder. Like losing your savings (bootstrapping failure) or risking 3 years of your career on something that turns into a no-name dud. Or you could do a great job, get screwed over by partners or investors or management, get fired with no severance and your stock diluted in some perverse way. Shit like that happens.
Playing games with other peoples' money (and getting a resume/credibility boost no matter what happens) isn't nearly as risky as putting 3 years of your life into something that might wreck your career for reasons that aren't your fault.
Take advantage HOW?
There's a set of very talented people who have no sense of their real worth, crappy negotiation skills, and an idealistic willingness to work long hours. Most of VC-istan is about turning them into pure gold for well-connected investors and useless executive implants (read: VCs' well-connected, underachieving friends). Who do you think is paying $2 million for small houses in Silicon Valley? Not programmers with their 0.03% slices of things that got beaten to shit by multiple liquidation preferences.
I know you have a reputation, though, and I am ready to weather a storm in the name of truth.
Good for you.