Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out • Hacker News Board

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#551

Post by Zoonie » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 11:40 PM UTC

tobych wrote: post #363

femaledev wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and would urge everyone to go a little easier on her." She is aware of her behavior and that she overreacts, and also has to take responsibility when she chooses to be a public figure. She makes her choices very clear, and her actions have very real repercussions, just as her childhood experiences had repercussions on her.

Exactly. Hopefully she can get some therapy and learn how better to deal with her triggers.

Heavy sigh. This is the crux of the matter, people. The NSPCC in the UK reports that 30% of girls (and I think you can therefore extend that to women) admit to having been subjected to sexualised assault. And that's admit. Who knows what the true figure is. As your female friends, or indeed, if you are female, have you yourself been assaulted? Now, imagine for a moment sitting in a conference, which is a known space where all kinds of offensive remarks and behaviour toward women occur, which absolutely puts women off going to conferences, or speaking at them. Then the guys next to you make jokes which are sexist, provocative... Potentially nasty... With absolutely no awareness or maturity. Nothing in them thinks 'Well maybe some of the women who are sitting around me might not just be offended by my sexist banter, but might actively be reminded of awful examples of trust abuse'. Of course not! Why would any guy think that? I mean come on, deal with it women, if you have issues! You can listen to us talking about women in an offensive way in public, surely? That's not an unconscious assertion of power, I mean come on! You're being paranoid!

30%.Just remember that.

By the way, me personally, I would have told them to stop being ass holes. However, many women would not. Many women would silently put up with that kind of horse-shit, as Tey do, daily. You really have to wake up, guys. Wake Up. It's not you, who are spending your lives looking over your shoulders. It really isn't. So. Whilst I do not agree it was the best of actions, I wholly defend the right of anyone to take it. And will therefore stand by them if they do.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#552

Post by simonrobb » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 11:47 PM UTC

sr3d wrote: post #545

adriarichards wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. For context, I'm a developer evangelist. That means I'm an advocate for developers, male and female. While I hear abou demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launch…

You're one childish person. You should behave like a grown up, and learn to speak up correctly. Here in the US there's something called "Freedom of Speech" and if someone at a public event cannot make a private joke that somehow overheard by some crazy, cookoo person, then you got it all wrong. And you are deserved to be forked for being a nasty person. And no, your repos on Github (if you have any) are not even wort…

I want to believe that I'm misinterpreting your comment about "deserved to be forked", but in the context of this discussion it sounds like a truly crude, offensive and sexist thing to say. I am disgusted. There is no place for a comment with the implications here - in any context, at any time. If I've misinterpreted, I apologize - but next time be more careful with how you choose your words.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#553

Post by ScottBurson » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 11:48 PM UTC

bobwaycott wrote: post #206

Seriously, Adria (and all of you who are defending her actions)--you got this one wrong; it was a false positive on your sexism scale. As a philosophical Marxist, I count myself among those who not only inherently support gender equality, but are from the thought tradition that started the damn movement. In graduate school, my thesis focused on the Southeast US from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights Act of 1964…

I had the same thought at first -- that "sexual" and "sexist" are not the same thing -- but on reflection I think that it misses the point.

Making sexual jokes in mixed company consisting of your friends is not necessarily offensive -- that's up to the friends, and your may know them well enough to know they won't be offended. But in public, I think it's different. You don't know the people who will hear the joke, and you don't know they'll be comfortable with sexual references being made. A lot of people still associate sexuality with a male/female power imbalance; to force your joke on them -- which is exactly what you're doing when you say it loudly -- echoes that imbalance. If you give yourself permission, as a man, to behave in a manner that is insensitive and disrespectful to women, that reflects a certain sense of male privilege -- and that's sexist.

To his credit, the guy was remorseful once confronted. I don't understand why he was fired.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#554

Post by neefsck » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 12:22 AM UTC

jluster wrote: post #524

adriarichards wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. For context, I'm a developer evangelist. That means I'm an advocate for developers, male and female. While I hear abou demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launch…

Adria, in all this please take one thing from me. Please do not use the term "trigger" for things that make you angry or uncomfortable or sad. Triggers are powerful psychological events, things that make people near-catatonic, unable to act, have physical and psychological repercussions. A rape survivor, a soldier or police officer or survivor of domestic abuse won't smile, snap a picture, and use their significant p…

I would just like to add my agreement with this.

A "trigger" is something which leaves the sufferer (and it is suffering) with absolutely NO choice in how we react.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#555

Post by gutnor » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 12:48 AM UTC

mnicole wrote: post #533

chrisivens wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems this youtube clip here is totally inappropriate too then? See 1:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI

What?

I was wondering aswell - around 2:00, there is a joke about dongle.

I guess the interesting bit the parent wanted to highlight is that a similar joke to the one that offended Adria, was showed on public television.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#556

Post by taproot » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 12:48 AM UTC

horseface wrote: post #489

zer01 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? You're going to let the fact that he called someone a moron overshadow the fact that he points out her blatant hypocrisy over this entire thing? It's apparently alright for women to make sexual references in a public setting (e.g. Twitter), but when men do it amongst themselves in a crowd it's just wrong? Did she ever once say "Hey guys, can you keep it down?" or how about "Your jokes are making me un-comf…

a public setting: a personal twitter account a professional setting: a professional conference

One in the same for her...

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#557

Post by floridacoding » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 12:48 AM UTC

citadrianne wrote: post #518

mr-hank wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its worth pointing out I'm not Alex, he had no part in this situation and is still employed. The gesture is kind none the less.

Hi there, reporter for The Verge here. We're doing a story on this and need to speak to you off the record. Email me at adrianne@theverge.com. Thanks.

Do you really think he is going to respond to a female in light of what happened? Especially to a female named ADRIAnne?

:) Just a little immature humor there. :)

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#558

Post by skewp » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 1:05 AM UTC

vacri wrote: post #539

skewp wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I'm pretty sure sticking my hand down my pants to adjust my junk is never appropriate in public. I mean, I've done it if I thought I could get away with it, but I'd be pretty mortified if anyone ever let on that they caught me.

When you read 'adjust my bra' above, did you interpret that as the woman reaching inside her bra cup to reseat her boob? I certainly didn't.

Nope.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#559

Post by coinin » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 1:51 AM UTC

bobwaycott wrote: post #305

savagedm wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am only a visitor from Reddit on this website and I will likely not post on here again, I felt compelled to make an account and reply to your post. You sir, win the internet award for 3-20-13 for your outstanding writing, cogent points, and social awareness. One does not often see this quality of writing and thoughts combined into a singular document on internet sites, and for making me think at the end "oh m…

Hey, thanks for the compliment and kind words. I appreciate that. However, I must emphatically and proudly express that I do not support the negation and devaluing of women's (as well as ethnic, [other] cultural, LGBT, etc.) rights by way of reactionary countering with a "men's rights" movement. One of the most pressing reasons is that such a movement would likely result in a majority of white, heterosexual male adhe…

"However, I must emphatically and proudly express that I do not support the negation and devaluing of women's (as well as ethnic, [other] cultural, LGBT, etc.) rights by way of reactionary countering with a "men's rights" movement."

Another redditor I'm afraid. Who ever said that fighting for men's rights comes at the expense of women's (or anyone else's)?

I also find it quite offensive for you to put scare quotes around men's rights like that. If you're genuinely committed to equality you'd do well to read up on the human rights issues which you, as a man, are much more likely to face than the female collegues you mentioned earlier. Men in the MRM (white or otherwise) aren't despondant due to disappearing privilege, they're dispondant due to an assumption of privilege (much of which never really existed) and a willful ignorence of ongoing oppression on the part of society around them. Ignorence even from other men who proclaim their support for social justice.

The identification of gender as an equivalent of class is horribly flawed and a hopelessly blunt tool for examining an infinitely nuanced and a very two sided issue.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#560

Post by mnicole » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 2:01 AM UTC

gutnor wrote: post #555

mnicole wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?

I was wondering aswell - around 2:00, there is a joke about dongle. I guess the interesting bit the parent wanted to highlight is that a similar joke to the one that offended Adria, was showed on public television.

Right, I was confused why he thought I would be offended by that when my point was that the joke was a non-issue. That sketch is fantastic and isn't new to me. What I find so silly about this whole thing - which is exactly what the skit helps imply - is that you can hardly even say the word dongle without laughing; you don't even need to know what it really is to see the low-hanging humor in it (no pun intended). It's just one of those words. She'd have an entire magazine spread if she went to some of the gaming-related events I've been to.

We were all in 5th grade once, I think a conference for adults can handle that same behavior.