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A Difficult Situation

blog.sendgrid.com

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Re: A Difficult Situation

#191

Post by taligent »

shock-value wrote: post #158
eridius wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can people please stop bringing up that tweet? It has absolutely nothing to do with what happened at PyCon. Whatever she says on her own personal twitter feed is wholly unrelated to what happens at a professional event. Especially since the only people who see her tweet are people that have explicitly chosen to do so (either by following her or by following someone's link to it). What is acceptable in an opt-in scena…

It's the same twitter account she used to "shame" the two guys who made the joke. It's relevant.

Well this is the most ridiculous logic I've seen for a while.

Just because I send two emails from my Gmail account doesn't mean they are related and/or relevant.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#192

Post by [deleted] »

powertower wrote: post #98

They need to update that statement with the fact that the joke was not about her, nor directed at her. Their statement leaves that very important part out, making the reader think otherwise - that she was the victim. At the same time (or around that time) this was happening, here is a conversation she was having - http://i.imgur.com/nRC5J7f.png Another gem from years ago - http://imgur.com/5tbXR2c I'd imagine she was…

[deleted]

Re: A Difficult Situation

#193

Post by yuhong »

powertower wrote: post #181
AJ007 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't paid too much attention to this story and completely missed it when it first occurred (though I've been a Sendgrid customer are their product is great) but your highlights are very relevant. This is the kind of employee you would refer to as a wild card. You just don't know what they are going to do and you have to do your best to keep them out of your company. Unfortunately for Sendgrid, if she files a sex…

I'm not sure she has grounds for a lawsuit. SendGrid received quite allot of customer complaints about her. Customers were quitting them, and/or making threats of going to a competitor. Then they got DDoSed over this. Also, if I'm not mistaken, they are located in a - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment - state.

I wonder what would happen if the party responsible for the DDoS blackmail was found.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#194

Post by OGC »

mtrimpe wrote: post #159
seivan wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Character flaw.

Also known as the good old ad-hominem attack.

> "Doug Walton, Canadian academic and author, has argued that ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, and that in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue,[10] as when it directly involves hypocrisy, or actions contradicting the subject's words. The philosopher Charles Taylor has argued that ad hominem reasoning is essential to understanding certain moral issues, and contrasts this sort of reasoning with the apodictic reasoning of philosophical naturalism.[11] Olavo de Carvalho, a Brazilian philosopher, has argued that ad hominem reasoning not only has rhetorical, but also logical value. As an example, he cites Karl Marx's idea that only the proletariat has an objective view of history. If that were to be taken rigorously, an ad hominem argument would effectively render Marx's general theory as incoherent: as Marx was not a proletarian, his own view of history couldn't be objective."

(wikipedia article on ad hominem)

In this case, i'd think it's pretty fucking valid.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#195

Post by mpclark »

mtrimpe wrote: post #106
mathrawka wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that it is the most reasonable statement because he took time to look over the entire situation and gauge it properly.

Unlike when he very publicly fired an employee in the heat of the moment after his company was being DDoS'ed. I think the fact that Paul Graham, after applying Occam's razor, preferred to think it was done from a compromised account speaks volumes here.

Well, speaking as a publisher, I would also want to confirm this sort of thing with the company before disseminating it widely. Companies and livelihoods are at stake in situations like this.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#196

Post by erikpukinskis »

WalterSear wrote: post #136
erikpukinskis wrote: post #125

Can someone explain to me why "she can no longer be effective in her role at SendGrid"? She tweeted an inappropriate comment that someone made to her in a public forum. I genuinely don't understand why this would affect anyone's professional relationship with her.

Do you mean this tweet from the conference: https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 Or the other one with the photo? :) As a developer, considering this, and the other damning stuff in her twitter stream, and her alleged previous track record at other conferences, I would not feel comfortable interacting with her. So, whatever my reasoning, she's no longer going to be able to reach me, so she's ki…

The one about the photo. I hadn't seen the tweet you linked.

Can you explain why you're not comfortable interacting with her?

Re: A Difficult Situation

#197

Post by gregd »

brennenHN wrote: post #184

My email to Jim Franklin: Hi Jim, You have a mess on your hands, and I understand how hard it must be at SendGrid today. I think you've made a defensible move, and it is hard to hold you in contempt for putting your employees and business first. That said, I'm really disappointed in your response. For as long as there have been tech conferences, they have been hostile to women. Sexually exclusive language is the star…

I'm curious to know whether you actually read their response.

"To be clear, SendGrid supports the right to report inappropriate behavior, whenever and wherever it occurs.

What we do not support was how she reported the conduct."

Re: A Difficult Situation

#198

Post by orcadk »

brennenHN wrote: post #184

My email to Jim Franklin: Hi Jim, You have a mess on your hands, and I understand how hard it must be at SendGrid today. I think you've made a defensible move, and it is hard to hold you in contempt for putting your employees and business first. That said, I'm really disappointed in your response. For as long as there have been tech conferences, they have been hostile to women. Sexually exclusive language is the star…

Except that's not the message.

The message is: Nobody is allowed to report misconduct in this way.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#199

Post by erikpukinskis »

bluehat wrote: post #165
erikpukinskis wrote: post #125

Can someone explain to me why "she can no longer be effective in her role at SendGrid"? She tweeted an inappropriate comment that someone made to her in a public forum. I genuinely don't understand why this would affect anyone's professional relationship with her.

Her action, and the actions she followed that action up with, caused a huge rift in the developer community. Her job is to unite the developer community and help them access the product.

That's what I don't understand. What is this "rift"? What is the chasm, and why is anyone on the side across from her?

Re: A Difficult Situation

#200

Post by ohsnapman »

dbecker wrote: post #118
nilkn wrote: post #26

Even if I agree with the decision, this is incredibly hard to read. I hate to see someone lose their job over something like this. Yet I can't disagree with anything he wrote. I personally hope she will learn from this and another company will give her a new chance. The odds of that are slim given how big this has become--it's front-paging repeatedly on HN and /r/programming. But I'd hate to see her whole career ruin…

I think her odds of getting a new job quickly are good. There are thousands out there vehemently supporting her. She only needs to find one to offer her a job. Thought of another way, her name has become a cause. Many love the cause, many hate it. But that cause has enough support that you could run a profitable business just serving a fraction of her devotees.

And that's probably why this was written: https://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/
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