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A Difficult Situation

blog.sendgrid.com

181–190 of 485 posts

Re: A Difficult Situation

#181
post #167

They need to update that statement with the fact that the joke was not about her, nor directed at her. Their statement leaves that very important part out, making the reader think otherwise - that she was the victim. At the same time (or around that time) this was happening, here is a conversation she was having - http://i.imgur.com/nRC5J7f.png Another gem from years ago - http://imgur.com/5tbXR2c I'd imagine she was…

I haven't paid too much attention to this story and completely missed it when it first occurred (though I've been a Sendgrid customer are their product is great) but your highlights are very relevant. This is the kind of employee you would refer to as a wild card. You just don't know what they are going to do and you have to do your best to keep them out of your company. Unfortunately for Sendgrid, if she files a sex…

I'm not sure she has grounds for a lawsuit.

SendGrid received quite allot of customer complaints about her. Customers were quitting them, and/or making threats of going to a competitor. Then they got DDoSed over this.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, they are located in a - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment - state.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#182

I have little to no knowledge of laws in this area. However my gut tells me that Sendgrid is opening themselves up to a hell of a lawsuit. Can anyone who actually does know about such matters comment?

What in particular do you think makes them vulnerable to a lawsuit? I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that in the US, it is legal to fire most non-contract employees at any time, without any notice, and for pretty much any reason (or even lack of a reason) other than outright discrimination based on nationality/gender/religion/etc. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment and specifically the "Sta…

Can you fire someone for being the victim of a crime? They clearly fired her here in response to a DDoS.

I guess I wouldn't be surprised if shitty American employment law permits it, but it's not ethical on the employer's part.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#183

They need to update that statement with the fact that the joke was not about her, nor directed at her. Their statement leaves that very important part out, making the reader think otherwise - that she was the victim. At the same time (or around that time) this was happening, here is a conversation she was having - http://i.imgur.com/nRC5J7f.png Another gem from years ago - http://imgur.com/5tbXR2c I'd imagine she was…

> http://imgur.com/5tbXR2c This is an excellent example of why you should never use Twitter to have a nuanced discussion. It depends on your definition of racism, and most scholarly definitions are "power and prejudice." In other words, a white person who is in the majority has more power than a black person (think Silicon Valley[1]), so the actual impact of the prejudice has a greater magnitude that turns it into "r…

> It depends on your definition of racism, and most scholarly definitions are "power and prejudice." In other words, a white person who is in the majority has more power than a black person (think Silicon Valley[1]), so the actual impact of the prejudice has a greater magnitude that turns it into "racism."

I don't know what scholarly sources you've seen that use that definition, but most scholarly sources I've seen define don't factor power into the definition of racism, but do certainly acknowledge that power dynamics have a pretty big impact on the effects of racism.

OTOH, the "only people in positions of power can be racists" thing is something I've seen pretty much exclusively in non-scholarly sources.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#184
My email to Jim Franklin:

Hi Jim,

You have a mess on your hands, and I understand how hard it must be at SendGrid today.

I think you've made a defensible move, and it is hard to hold you in contempt for putting your employees and business first.

That said, I'm really disappointed in your response.

For as long as there have been tech conferences, they have been hostile to women. Sexually exclusive language is the starting point for harassment and assault that have been the status quo for the tech industry for decades. (tech isn't alone here, of course)

A woman trying to report these offenses often went completely unheard. The crimes were completely silenced by a community that protected itself with homogeny, and the results are strikingly obvious in the number of women working, participating, and attending conferences in technology.

This deeply-rooted problem is finally beginning to surface, and we're starting to talk about solutions in a productive way. PyCon was at the forefront of that as they worked incredibly hard to make women feel accepted. Their no-harassment policy and work to get more women speaking and attending represent a huge amount of progress.

It has been a very public effort by the conference, and the results were impressive. A huge number of women showed up to a space they thought would be more welcoming.

Of course, it wasn't perfect. Though we've made a lot of progress, there's still a long way to go before we'll get rid of exclusive attitudes towards women.

What's really disappointing, though, is that when a woman at this conference felt uncomfortable and made her discomfort public, she lost her job.

Her peers, our technology community, responded to her statement with incredible hostility. Threats of rape and murder were abundant yesterday, and we attacked a woman for expressing her discomfort publicly.

Some people, like yourself, said that it would be okay for her to express her discomfort privately, but that the publicity is what made it a problem. But in doing so, you're asking her to give up her voice. You're asking her to stay silent about an incredibly serious problem.

All she did was report factual discomfort publicly. She didn't lie or slander.

And now she's lost her job for it. The message is obvious: women aren't allowed to report misconduct like this. We don't want to hear about the sexual misconduct in our community. A woman's discomfort is her own problem, not ours.

That's the wrong message.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#185

Does anyone remember the ApacheCon Noirin Shirley / Florian Leibert scandal from a few years back, where she wrote a blog post accusing him of sexual assault at a conference party? So would SendGrid FIRE Shirley for resorting to "publicly shaming" him in a blog post, if she had a public role in the company? Would her blog post be in violation of PyCon conference policy? To be 100% clear, I'm not suggesting the dongle…

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Re: A Difficult Situation

#186
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, just two guys making forking jokes (get it?). Even Github sells merch with the words "Fork you". Zealous oversensitive jaded person like her, taking her time to get the phone out, take a picture, possible geo-tagged of two guys who might not want to be on her Twitter. She has no right to do that. Especially when there was no communication between them. You don't like their jokes, tell them or move away. Look…

Do you know Adria personally? Saying that "We got an unstable, hypocritical, oversensitive jaded person out of our way. I think this was a win." without knowing her personally would be ... well ... not exactly OK.

In her blog post about this, she was likening herself to Joan of Arc over this event. And that was just the beginning. Too bad that website is down.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#187
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is standing behind his employees; by protecting the jobs of those not involved in the drama. Any CEO who would stand behind an employee to the death of their company would not be CEO for very long.

Why did they feel the need to very publicly post this dismissal (and withdraw, and then reissue) in the heat of the moment while under a DDoS attack though, rather than sooner or later? It very much feels like a cowardly act of throwing someone under a bus.

I think there are several ways that she could have handled this, she picked the wrong one

Re: A Difficult Situation

#188
post #167

They need to update that statement with the fact that the joke was not about her, nor directed at her. Their statement leaves that very important part out, making the reader think otherwise - that she was the victim. At the same time (or around that time) this was happening, here is a conversation she was having - http://i.imgur.com/nRC5J7f.png Another gem from years ago - http://imgur.com/5tbXR2c I'd imagine she was…

I haven't paid too much attention to this story and completely missed it when it first occurred (though I've been a Sendgrid customer are their product is great) but your highlights are very relevant. This is the kind of employee you would refer to as a wild card. You just don't know what they are going to do and you have to do your best to keep them out of your company. Unfortunately for Sendgrid, if she files a sex…

Such a lawsuit would be a confirmed kill on her career though. At least now she has a chance to someday salvage her work. Adding a lawsuit to the mix will probably mean she'll never be hired by anyone (who can read and is on the web) again.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

{{citation needed}} or put it another way - you're making a very reaching unsupported statement. You have no idea what they were thinking.

We're assuming these are fake, and that someone just got hold of their Facebook and Twitter passwords. pg posted that earlier. Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5416979

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