How does this square with their new campus that's slated to be ready in 2015 and be primarily powered by their own natural gas generating station? [1] Have the plans changed?
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Campus#Apple_Campus_2
Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy
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Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy
#32This is some pretty deceptive marketing. Apple's data centers still run on coal in places like North Carolina because that's is what is producing the electricity on the grid. Their renewable projects produce a decent amount of electricity, but one of the most critical issues of the electrical grid is stability and solar, even with the fuel cells does not provide enough electricity on cloudy days or over night. Solar,…
Simultaneously correct and incorrect :-) A number of great studies have shown the futility of depending on transient energy renewables (solar, wind, tides) for all generation, and yet the ability to cover peak loads does directly reduce the required amount of non-renewable fuel. If you're renewables generate the same amount of energy during their 'active' hours, that you consume in total, you have effectively arbitraged your use of non-renewables by carrying the load for others during the 'active' time and using their power during inactive times. The total amount of coal/gas/oil burned to create power for the 24 hr period is not affected by the amount of energy your datacenter used.
Given the drop in gas prices I expect that even in NC the power folks are considering changing/upgrading their power plants to burn that instead.
Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy
#33This is some pretty deceptive marketing. Apple's data centers still run on coal in places like North Carolina because that's is what is producing the electricity on the grid. Their renewable projects produce a decent amount of electricity, but one of the most critical issues of the electrical grid is stability and solar, even with the fuel cells does not provide enough electricity on cloudy days or over night. Solar,…
This marketing might make some people feel good, but it is deceptive. I just assume marketing == deception, anymore. I know that isn't really an accurate view of reality, but it leaves me less upset when I find out they are in fact being deceptive.
Or, thrilled when they fail to deceive you. Many companies exploit this nowadays.
Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy
#34How does this square with their new campus that's slated to be ready in 2015 and be primarily powered by their own natural gas generating station? [1] Have the plans changed? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Campus#Apple_Campus_2
From Apple's Description of the campus [1]:
"The project’s overall energy needs will be provided by renewable energy. The majority will be generated on-site through the use of photovoltaics and fuel cells with directed biogas. These will be supplemented by grid purchased renewable energy if needed during periods of peak demand."
Where do you view this as conflicting with the fact that their current campus is now 100% renewable?
[1] https://s3.amazonaws.com/apple-campus2-project/Project_Descr...
Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy
#35This is some pretty deceptive marketing. Apple's data centers still run on coal in places like North Carolina because that's is what is producing the electricity on the grid. Their renewable projects produce a decent amount of electricity, but one of the most critical issues of the electrical grid is stability and solar, even with the fuel cells does not provide enough electricity on cloudy days or over night. Solar,…
Your logic is impeccable and many well-qualified observers have repeated it. Turns out not to be so:
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Grid-Integration...
The reason is human psychology: the systemic costs we pay for the old stuff is familiar and therefore doesn't seem noteworthy. From the link:
nuclear and large fossil plants actually have “far higher integration costs than renewables,” Goggin said. “Contingency reserves, the super-fast acting energy reserve supply required of grid operators in case a large power plant shuts down unexpectedly, are a major cost. Comparing the incremental cost of wind to those costs that ratepayers have always paid, the wind cost looks even more trivial.”
Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
I haven't read through this yet, but it looks like an attempt at answering that question: http://landartgenerator.org/blagi/archives/127
"... we arrive at 496,804,500,000 square meters or 496,805 square kilometers (191,817 square miles) as the area required to power the world with solar panels. This is roughly equal to the area of Spain."
As was pointed out, that's the whole world, not the United States. And the Sahara Desert is 3.629 million square miles. Sounds like that would be a great place to site 200,000 square miles of solar panels. Of course, this would be infeasible for any number of reasons ranging from geopolitics to superconductors, which is why it's a thought experiment.
Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
This marketing might make some people feel good, but it is deceptive. I just assume marketing == deception, anymore. I know that isn't really an accurate view of reality, but it leaves me less upset when I find out they are in fact being deceptive.
Or, thrilled when they fail to deceive you. Many companies exploit this nowadays.
I'm more than happy to have companies exploit me via being honest
Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy
#38How does this square with their new campus that's slated to be ready in 2015 and be primarily powered by their own natural gas generating station? [1] Have the plans changed? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Campus#Apple_Campus_2
From Apple's Description of the campus [1]: "The project’s overall energy needs will be provided by renewable energy. The majority will be generated on-site through the use of photovoltaics and fuel cells with directed biogas. These will be supplemented by grid purchased renewable energy if needed during periods of peak demand." Where do you view this as conflicting with the fact that their current campus is now 100%…
I guess their plans changed.
Here's Jobs saying that they'll be producing their own power using natural gas:
Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy
#39This is some pretty deceptive marketing. Apple's data centers still run on coal in places like North Carolina because that's is what is producing the electricity on the grid. Their renewable projects produce a decent amount of electricity, but one of the most critical issues of the electrical grid is stability and solar, even with the fuel cells does not provide enough electricity on cloudy days or over night. Solar,…
Deceptive marketing is what made Apple great. They're selling a culture, not tools.
Re: Apple's Data Centers Now Running on 100% Renewable Energy
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
"... we arrive at 496,804,500,000 square meters or 496,805 square kilometers (191,817 square miles) as the area required to power the world with solar panels. This is roughly equal to the area of Spain."
That figure is to power the whole world . The original questions was about the US, which requires a substantially smaller area.
My bad, that completely flew over my head. Thanks for pointing this out!