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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#541
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my reading of her account is correct, the person who got fired was suggestion that Adria "check out his big dongle" which is a very explicit sexual joke directed at a specific stranger (her). The joke that she's making there is that her male friend should stuff socks in his pants to shock the screening TSA agent. This joke is not targeted at anyone in particular. The comment she's replying to is a factual descript…

This was a private conversation between two friends, none of whom referenced her or even knew she was listening.

This was a private conversation between two friends, none of whom referenced her or even knew she was listening.

Are you sure? How do you know?

If my reading of her article is correct, and she was telling the truth, then she did not think so. That does not mean that she was correct. And with a he said, she said situation there is no chance of sorting things out. But your unsupported assertion of fact is not necessarily true.

Her article is at http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont... if you want to read it to decide for yourself whether I am reading correctly.

Here is the scenario that I read from her description. She's sitting one in front. 3 guys are behind and (if she is turned) to her right. Guy #1 who is behind is talking about a presentation, she turns and agrees with him, and during their discussion he talks about forking a repository.

Guy #2 is to #1's left (on the right from her view), and begins making sexual jokes about forking with #3 riffing off of that. Then shortly after they riff off of a comment from the speaker and joke, "You can thank me" then start talking about big dongles.

Therefore their sexual jokes were based off of their overhearing HER conversation, and so they had every expectation that SHE would hear THEM in turn. Furthermore I get the impression that even though she was not looking at them, she believed that they were implicitly ADDRESSING HER. (I am not saying that this belief is correct, merely that this is my impression of the situation as she remembered and described it.)

If so, then in no way that she would have believed that this was a private conversation. Nor is it tenable that they were accidentally overheard by her. Nor is it a surprise that she took it personally.

Of course we all adjust memories of things that happened to be clearer cut than they were. There was a lot going on. I was not there - she may have misunderstood the interaction. But what she described is both a plausible scenario, and one in which her upset makes quite a bit of sense to me. And one which runs absolutely counter to the narrative that this was simply a private conversation that she accidentally overheard and overreacted to.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#542
I do not feel safe when the modern idea of civil rights is blatantly accusing people of wrongdoing and playing the victim. Being a woman does not mean your entire focus should be on how much of a woman you are. This isn't all you are and this isn't all we see. Professionalism is not turning around, smirking, taking a snapshot, then tweeting it right in front of them to 30,000 people. Professionalism is not ranting about it on a blog, accusing them of sexism, and acting as if you're the hero.

Professionalism is not responding to a Microsoft architect on twitter and accusing him of racism and white supremacy because he used the word 'lynching' metaphorically to describe the mob mentality of her supporters, and then quoting him and linking to a blog post about how straight white males are the "lowest difficulty setting that is".

She doesn't come across as a feminist or a technology evangelist. What she does come across to me as is something you'll find ironic. She comes across as sexist.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously suggesting the code of conduct applies to PRIVATE conversations between TWO people who obviously know each other? It is not like they meant to offend somebody. I am assuming they weren't talking loudly but rather meant to converse between each other. How I talk to my buddy is no ones fucking business. How about you tell your friend of of those an American, a Russian and a German walk into a bar joke…

Whether they meant to offend people is irrelevant — its pretty clear that jokes w/ sexual innuendo in a public context isn't okay. Period. Also, as others have said, this clearly wasn't a private situation. The whole problem with these jokes, even if not told directly to someone's face, is that they create a poisonous atmosphere.

I'm sorry, it's not clear to me. I do not think that there's something inherently sexist in sexual innuendo, or that it somehow isn't OK when among adults (and even if there's kids, they likely won't understand it - that's the beauty of innuendo).

Re: The PyCon Incident

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who got harmed by this joke being told? No one, thus it's harmless.

"The results of two experiments supported the hypothesis that, for sexist men, exposure to sexist humour can promote the behavioural release of prejudice against women." http://psp.sagepub.com/content/34/2/159.abstract Women are tangibly harmed by sexist jokes.

this wasn't a sexist joke, if it was I wouldn't be saying nobody was harmed

Re: The PyCon Incident

#546
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit dehumanizing to be forced to act like sexuality doesn't exist. This wasn't propositioning anyone, it wasn't insulting anyone, it wasn't explicit. It was a few lame jokes. I (personally) have no problem watching myself in these situations, but it always feels artificial. I'm not sure what American society is doing to women, but it leaves some of them incapable of dealing with any amount of sexuality. (Again…

We're discussing Python at PyCon, no? I'm also not exchanging soup recipes, beauty tips, or nutrition experiences, because they're not appropriate either. Same goes for human sexuality. Not a relevant topic. As for the "lame double entendre", and being capable of dealing with it - I (and most women, I suppose) can deal with one. Or with two. Or three. But that's usually just the first 5 minutes of the day. It's a con…

> I'm also not exchanging soup recipes, beauty tips, or nutrition experiences, because they're not appropriate either.

"Oh, man, you gotta try that new Mexican restaurant down the block, it's delicious."

"Let me tell you about this new anti-herpes product, it might help you."

...

I can totally imagine such statements being spoken amongst friends (not on stage, though), and nobody getting fired.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd go so far as to say that--sex and reproduction being the original design goal of any lifeform--we should treat sexually explicit jokes as something not worth getting bent out of shape about, provided they aren't interfering with the task at hand. A couple of dudes making stupid dick jokes to each other in hall of hundreds doesn't really seem to me to be that big an issue.

That would be an ideal situation in a world that isn't sexist. But since our society is , we have to deal with the consequences of that power imbalance. And a lot of things that should in the abstract be harmless are not in reality. Pretending otherwise is just silly -- or defensive, in the case of a lot of folk in this thread.

> our society is [sexist]

Very much so. I can hardly imagine women ever getting fired for talking about vaginas. Too sexist IMO.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#549
I just switched my Sendgrid API to Amazon SES. It won't matter to Sendgrid but at least it's $500 less a month in their pocket. In this economy I can't support a company that gets developers (with a family to support) fired over immature dongle jokes. I've heard much more offensive remarks come from presenters at conferences, this whole ordeal is ridiculous.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know that you can't provide any evidence to back this up. What is your agenda? Why do you think we are stupid?

Try using google: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=single+gender+teams+perf... I grabbed a couple citations while I was there because I was also curious: * http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1468-0432.00129/a... - "Although generalizations from student-based studies to the workplace is problematic, the results indicate that groups may be more effective when women outnumber or equal men, especially in compl…

I'm sorry to say that, but you have to take academic papers about gender eq very carefully. There's a lot of money in gender eq and where's money research follows...
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