Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 704 posts

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#381

Post by truthtacular »

ianschenck wrote: post #93
zellyman wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So someone making a joke about sex is exclusionary to you? Why so sex negative?

And here I thought third wave feminism was sex-positive.

That's postfeminism, I think you mean? And mainly postfeminism isn't "sex-positive" so much as it is a reactionary backlash against 2nd wave feminism's tendency toward slutshaming any woman who didn't fall into line and march alongside her sisters (ALLEGEDLY).

Postfeminism is "sex-positive" in the sense that it's all about how awesome it is to be girly and how gross and narsty those annoying feminists are; girls should go wild! according to this kind of postfeminist attitude. If a woman wants to stay home and raise her kids, well, darn it, postfeminism says there's nothing wrong with that, and it's the dirty stupid "you can have it all" feminists who want to kill the American family! Or who want to shame the women who don't aspire to the things that 2nd wave feminism said women should aspire to. If a man makes a joke that degrades women, the postfeminist says "LAUGH AT IT!!! because it's FUNNY!! why are you so sensitive?!?!" The postfeminist is dtf and she's fun as hell...until you criticize her in some way that she thinks is trying to shame her for just being a woman. And then she's not so much fun.

3rd wave feminism isn't so well defined and I don't think that "wave" has quite crested yet. I see you linked to a wiki page on it, but I'd be surprised to see it offering some kind of cohesive definition. In lots of ways, postfeminism wants to be called 3rd wave feminism...but it lacks credibility since it mostly seems geared towards calling female activists bitches and telling them to stfu about gender-based oppression already.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#382

Post by lawnchair_larry »

selenamarie wrote: post #211

I hope people here realize how far some people will go when they feel they are given permission to harass others: https://twitter.com/jessenoller/status/314417532842950656 This is just awful. And the people who are taking part in the harassment are responsible, not anyone else.

Being that you "thanked" Adria for her deplorable behavior, I'm not sure that you're in a position to speak out against harassment on this issue.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#383

Post by truthtacular »

metaphorm wrote: post #372
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "big dongle" statement was not in any way a 'sexist joke'. It was an anatomical joke that is, as they say in British politics, a distinction without a difference.

false. a sexist jokes is a joke that tries to find humor in the degradation of women. a joke using a puerile nickname for a penis does not find humor in the degradation of women. it finds humor (very little humor, in my opinion) in a juvenile notion that euphemisms for male genitals are funny.

I see value in both this comment and the one it answers. I'm just kind of trying to put myself in the position of sitting there in that audience, in my professional capacity (and probably in uncomfortable shoes...), and hearing "puerile" and "juvenile" jokes being whispered right behind me, possibly also with some muffled laughter.

Since I wasn't there, I don't know how it went down. But I can at least imagine how that could be a really, really uncomfortable situation--if in my head I am wondering if they are looking at me as they giggle--or really enraging, if it feels like these guys are treating our shared professional space as their private pizza-crust-carpeted beer-stinking bachelor pad living room.

I think their tone might really impact how I'd feel. Laughter can be super cruel. Or it can be innocent and not at all hurtful.

I'll admit it: I got teased mercilessly in middle school & high school for having big breasts. When I turned 18, I promptly had breast reduction surgery...yeah, they were that big, and I am very small-framed...yeah, there were good health reasons to do the surgery, but mainly my psyche was fucking bruised from having so much unwanted and often mean-spirited attention directed at my breasts. All through college, if I heard a group of guys laughing as I walked past, I'd get really self conscious and think they were probably looking at me and laughing about some aspect of my appearance...even though I'd had that surgery and now nothing much really stood out about me. I tell this little story because you have to understand...when you get hit on, teased, picked on, bullied, all throughout your adolescence, just because you're female, the snickering whispered laughter--and sexual jokes--of guys can make you feel very very uncomfortable and bad.

I have no idea if this is something like what happened to Adria Richards, but it sounds like it. She may or may not have misinterpreted the intended cruelty or degradation of the joking.

But the fact remains that none of this would have had a chance of happening if those two guys had behaved professionally in that environment. In the end, if someone got fired, I'd imagine it was the lack of professionalism that did it. Or the lack of good judgment.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#384

Post by kumar303 »

wyager wrote: post #356
kumar303 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me sad that HN reinforces the fact that women have a hard time participating in s/tech conferences/tech forums/g PyCon was 20% female this year which was a remarkable milestone. Along with this milestone came an amplification of why it was so hard for PyCon to reach that milestone. This was not an isolated issue; Titus' post provides a good summary of the general harassment women faced at PyCon http://ivory.…

An immature penis joke is not "harassment". You shouldn't throw that word around like it's meaningless. Harassment is a serious thing, and this joke most certainly is not.

Actually, to many people harassment isn't a serious thing. It's just a "casual" snide comment about being cute or looking hot. Many men don't realize they're making women feel uncomfortable in geek circles.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#385

Post by hpguy »

adriarichards wrote: post #27
mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. For context, I'm a developer evangelist. That means I'm an advocate for developers, male and female. While I hear abou demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launch…

What a hypocrite. You can joke dirty publicly, but when it comes to 2 friends making private jokes with one another, you become Joan of Arc, a heroine, an activist. Well "calculated" though, I have to say.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#386

Post by beedogs »

adriarichards wrote: post #27
mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. For context, I'm a developer evangelist. That means I'm an advocate for developers, male and female. While I hear abou demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launch…

Great job ruining someone's career because you're an oversensitive -- and apparently hypocritical -- imbecile.

Maybe you should work on that.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#388

Post by tylerhwillis »

nawitus wrote: post #373
bobwaycott wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do, in fact, support equality for everyone, regardless of gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, religion, etc. However, you are very selectively choosing facts to draw a picture in which men " have the same amount of gender equality issues (maybe even more) than women ". Sorry, but you are severely mistaken regarding the relevance of history. It is of primary relevance, because without proper…

"However, you are very selectively choosing facts to draw a picture in which men "have the same amount of gender equality issues (maybe even more) than women"." I'm not, really. Feminist discourse is based on the claim that women have more gender issues. They never really argue for that position. I've linked a list of gender equality issues (though my primary source is unfortunately not in English). Here's a book on…

>do women get raped more than men (not in USA)

This is very wrong.

The link you provide in the original comment is for violent crimes (including rape), not for rape alone. There is little doubt that women are more likely to be raped in the US than men.

Here's a relevant study from the Bureau of Justice Statistics: http://bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=1146

"Overall, an estimated 91% of the victims of rape and sexual assault were female."

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#389

Post by bherms »

KuraFire wrote: post #376
bherms wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would almost contend there are grounds for a defamation/libel (something... not a lawyer) suit here as well considering her comments have severely hurt his reputation and caused him to lose his job.

Cheez and bherms: neither of you guys understand the legal system very well, do you?

To be fair, not many people do, and lawsuits have been filed and won for much less.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#390

Post by rdtsc »

rdtsc wrote: post #268
thrwawayaccnt wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company she works for is SendGrid, if random redditors discussing this are to be trusted.

Alright thanks.

Ok it seems SendGrid might be the company that Adria works for not the company that fired the guy.

Guy's company is PlayHeaven.

If I see either one of their companies' booths I will make sure to have 'a nice' chat with them.

Post reply on HN