Live data from Hacker News

Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

twitter.com

361–370 of 704 posts

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, thanks for the compliment and kind words. I appreciate that. However, I must emphatically and proudly express that I do not support the negation and devaluing of women's (as well as ethnic, [other] cultural, LGBT, etc.) rights by way of reactionary countering with a "men's rights" movement. One of the most pressing reasons is that such a movement would likely result in a majority of white, heterosexual male adhe…

"However, I must emphatically and proudly express that I do not support the negation and devaluing of women's (as well as ethnic, [other] cultural, LGBT, etc.) rights by way of reactionary countering with a "men's rights" movement." Then you don't support equality. Men have the same amount of gender equality issues (maybe even more) than women in Western countries. "From a historical perspective alone" History has no…

I do, in fact, support equality for everyone, regardless of gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, religion, etc. However, you are very selectively choosing facts to draw a picture in which men "have the same amount of gender equality issues (maybe even more) than women".

Sorry, but you are severely mistaken regarding the relevance of history. It is of primary relevance, because without properly understanding how we arrived at this point in history, you couldn't possibly evaluate the actual scale of gender disparities in social relations.

The percentage of male rulers as a total percentage of the human population is not a valid metric. When you study history, and the impact of rulers, you evaluate their impact on the subject population, the society and culture, as well as the world around them. History, because it is ever so relevant, shows a rather stable trend in which one can chart the increases in social inequalities in favor of one gender at the expense of another, or of one (or more) ethnicities at the expense of others, etc. So far, we are looking at about a century of social justice being established to improve the standing of women in relation to their historical subjection by men.

Once you have an adequate grounding in history, you can then start thinking philosophically through how best to proceed without retarding equality. While there are, of course, contemporary social imbalances and inequalities where men are concerned, what we do not need is more gendered lines being drawn in the sand. Moreover, we do not have a social structure in which men's labor and sexual faculties are institutionalized in a form that is under female control, which would be a huge red flag that the pendulum has swung too far.

One can advance equality and be vigilant against sexism, racism, and other forms of bigotry and discriminatory behaviors without resorting to more of this us vs. them bullshit that "men's rights" evokes. But understanding the root causes of inequalities--as opposed to merely pointing out instances of what appears to be inequality--is where the real work lies. Not a masculinism cult that establishes its identity as the negation of feminism.

In sum, a "men's rights" movement is not going to increase equality, because it is only going to codify more gendered division in the social fabric. If you're really interested in enhancing equality as a social good, you would do better to champion the cause of equality that is blind to biological and socioeconomic factors, and works instead to specifically eschew attempting to define equality as inversion of a movement whose existence required the specificity of gender because history had only ever concerned itself with the rights of man.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mmm. Nothing gets the Men's Rights fanatics frothing like the suggestion that they aren't the most oppressed people of all time (OF. ALL. TIME.). So it might help ease their minds to acknowledge that there are a few significant scenarios in which there is actually gender bias that favors women. The worst one is probably child custody. Who says moms are automatically better single parents? I'd say the other bad one is…

While I completely agree with you that it is nonsense in suggesting that men are the most oppressed people of all time. Anyone who supports this is a moron. However, there is some truth in the arguments that people are suggest, if you will please hear me out: Recently near me, there was a crime committed by a teacher. This teacher had been having an explicit relationship with pupils, namely in sending digital photos…

I acknowledged that some gender bias does seem to swing in women's favor in my own comment. I acknowledged, as two examples, the way the family courts favor mothers in custody battles (not something I have evidence on--just an impression I have somehow acquired) and the fact that the US military, when it last had a draft (involuntary conscription) only took males and didn't ask females to sacrifice similarly for their country.

The legal system's tendency to give women lighter sentences for crimes may also be a good example of one of these rare issues. But you're acting like I said that there's no such thing as gender bias that favors women. And in fact I did not say that at all.

I also don't believe that there's such a thing as a hierarchy of struggle. Just because women haven't achieved the goal of being treated fairly and equally doesn't mean we have to set aside efforts to redress injustices directed at men. It's all important; it all affects people's lives; no injustice or bias should go unaddressed just because the person impacted sits at the apex of the current power pyramid, or just because there are others who are suffering more.

There ARE some activists who believe that you need to tease out the "relationality" of oppression and then pick which oppressor you have to fight first. A great example of this would be some of the Civil Rights debates that took place... did black women have to "sit down and shut up" about their situation and just support black men in the fight against race-based oppression? The Black Power movement was awfully dismissive of women's issues at times. Black women activists were told, "You have to be a revolutionary first, Sister second."

For me, I can see why some people think you have to pick and choose what to fight and when, but I personally couldn't look at someone who was suffering and just be like, "Yeah, fuck you, you're not suffering enough yet... we'll get to you."

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is passive aggressive stuff. The guy said you even smiled at him as you took the picture. I actually read more of Adria's site and I read http://butyoureagirl.com/13871/success-against-the-odds-fill... . "Because of my experiences growing up, I have triggers. This means that I’m always scanning for danger; for situations that seem like something from the past that could hurt me. When I recognize something…

"and would urge everyone to go a little easier on her." She is aware of her behavior and that she overreacts, and also has to take responsibility when she chooses to be a public figure. She makes her choices very clear, and her actions have very real repercussions, just as her childhood experiences had repercussions on her.

Exactly. Hopefully she can get some therapy and learn how better to deal with her triggers.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#364
Thank you, Adria, for fighting the good fight. I hope that the voices of support for you drown out the rampant hate that you're receiving. Seems like HN turns into a complete shithole the second a woman "has the nerve to choose to be offended" or whatever bullshit these misogynist assholes peddle.

The benefit that I always see from situations like this is that it empowers the women who, in the past, have been too nervous to call people out on their shit. Just know that you're doing amazing work and are paving the way to creating an environment of gender equality.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#366

I just happened on this thread, even if a day old. Un-fucking-believable. I'm disappointed nearly all around here. Disappointed in pycon for actually kicking them out. Very disappointed that some would say posting their picture was fine (hint: it was not). Utterly disappointed they lost their jobs over this. I still can't believe they lost their jobs over this. What a sad state of affairs the world is in when someone…

I hope everybody retweets that tweet...with a suitable comment.

And a hashtag. #joanofarc or something.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#367
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. For context, I'm a developer evangelist. That means I'm an advocate for developers, male and female. While I hear abou demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launch…

Your inability to take a joke is dangerous for the public image of whichever company you're evangelizing for. And this after you make "sock down your pants" jokes on Twitter. The irony is delicious. I hope the OP sues you for reproducing his likeness without his permission. PyCon is, after all, a private gathering.

She works for Sendgrid.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"fairly freaky population of misogynists on reddit" Wrong. "Don't be fooled. The Men's Rights subreddit is just thinly veiled misogyny, often with some white supremacy thrown in the mix." Wrong.

I understand this thread is triggering a Reddit mentality in a lot of people due to the overlap, but just for the purpose of clarification: Comment replies that do nothing more than say "Wrong." and leave it at that really don't have a place here.

My point was to show how the original comment didn't actually argue for anything, it just made some baseless and quite offensive accusations.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#369

Seriously, Adria (and all of you who are defending her actions)--you got this one wrong; it was a false positive on your sexism scale. As a philosophical Marxist, I count myself among those who not only inherently support gender equality, but are from the thought tradition that started the damn movement. In graduate school, my thesis focused on the Southeast US from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights Act of 1964…

> The "big dongle" statement was not in any way a 'sexist joke'. It was an anatomical joke

that is, as they say in British politics, a distinction without a difference.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#370
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you apologizing. She is an asshole who cost you your job. I really hope you are just doing it for potential employers in the future. Adria is a shitty person for getting you fired over this.

> [...] She is an asshole > [...] is a shitty person Please go away and take your name-calling someplace else. I prefer Hacker News to be a location for civil dialog.

I don't think anyone gives a shit what you prefer.
Post reply on HN