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Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

mhalligan.com

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Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#141

Post by michael_miller »

aresant wrote: post #62

From the Author's bio: "I'm just this guy who used to enjoy tech, now I would rather build bicycles. I still work in the tech industry, for the money, but I no longer call myself a "technologist"." So points well made that a guy with children, in mid-career, and without much of a passion for the field he's working in finds a Y-Combinator offer to be less compelling than a more traditional package. But I'm not sure wh…

The takeaway is that YC companies need to offer more equity, if they hope to attract people like the OP. At the end of the day, most YC companies don't have money to fund the salary and benefits packages the OP wants. This is expected for startups, the idea is that you get paid in equity instead of cash/benefits. Given more equity, the OP could sacrifice some savings to pay for the benefits he wants (clipper card, health insurance for his daughter, health club membership, etc.), with the idea that the expected value of his stock would pay for these benefits in the long run.

It seems pretty clear that he feels YC companies are not offering enough equity to make this tradeoff worthwhile. Thus, the only practical solution for YC companies to attract talent like the author is to provide more equity.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#142

Post by richardking »

coolsunglasses wrote: post #90
etchalon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You can basically always keep your health insurance. You just have to pay a higher premium than your employer paid for it. They aren't "holding your health care hostage", they're given you a benefit of being a part of a group; a risk pool insurance companies are willing to give discounted rates to. Get fired, or quit? Just call the insurance company and ask what it'd cost to keep your coverage as is. There's gen…

I didn't mean just insurance either. Independence and the ability to come and go as I please is more valuable to me than whatever risk/reward calculation you're working with in your head.

can you really 'come and go as you please' if you are a contractor, or even if you are working on your own thing?

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#143

Post by rohern »

I think the most interesting question raised by this article is, "Why are the smart people graduating from college willing to get shafted by startups?"

Why are schools failing to teach engineers about caring for their own careers? I do not think most business majors would put up with kind of crap. They are all taught to negotiate for salary and to get high earnings early as a basis for later demands. They also understand how stock options work and that 0.5% over a four-year vesting cycle with no protection in the event of acquisition is an atrociously bad deal.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#144

Post by anigbrowl »

coolsunglasses wrote: post #58
etchalon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a contractor, if you're taking in 800 dollars a day, and buying your own health insurance, you are not taking in 800 dollars a day. In fact, your take home pay is probably less than his (at least on the high-end of the per-diem). 1. You're paying a higher marginal tax rate on your earnings than he is on his salary. Self-employment tax is a real bitch. 2. If you're buying your own health insurance, the benefits you…

I've been contracting for a long time, I know the risks and it's not just about the money. It's about the self ownership. Of course it's better for the company, they want the ability to coerce the employee and hold their livelihood/healthcare hostage. With my arrangement, I keep the same healthcare plan no matter who I'm working for or what I'm doing.

I've been contracting for a long time

You know, I had a similar career path and was also contracting at 24 with several years of experience under my belt. I get what you say because I've worked freelance most of my life, and do care bout self-ownership. On the other hand, my view of what constitutes 'a long time' has shifted substantially since I was your age (I'm 42 now). In this market, I don't think you need to worry about being held hostage; maybe it's a proxy for something else that's bugging you that you haven't identified yet.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#145

Post by djcapelis »

etchalon wrote: post #72
coolsunglasses wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been contracting for a long time, I know the risks and it's not just about the money. It's about the self ownership. Of course it's better for the company, they want the ability to coerce the employee and hold their livelihood/healthcare hostage. With my arrangement, I keep the same healthcare plan no matter who I'm working for or what I'm doing.

Huh? You can basically always keep your health insurance. You just have to pay a higher premium than your employer paid for it. They aren't "holding your health care hostage", they're given you a benefit of being a part of a group; a risk pool insurance companies are willing to give discounted rates to. Get fired, or quit? Just call the insurance company and ask what it'd cost to keep your coverage as is. There's gen…

> That's becoming less of an issue thanks to new laws

Not until 1 Jan 2014, unfortunately.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#146

Post by angersock »

aresant wrote: post #62

From the Author's bio: "I'm just this guy who used to enjoy tech, now I would rather build bicycles. I still work in the tech industry, for the money, but I no longer call myself a "technologist"." So points well made that a guy with children, in mid-career, and without much of a passion for the field he's working in finds a Y-Combinator offer to be less compelling than a more traditional package. But I'm not sure wh…

"But I'm not sure what the takeaway should be for Y-Combinator companies."

It seems like a core assertion of the article (and in the comments) is that being a YC company means very little to anyone other than the founders.

Honest question: A few years out, how much does it matter to employees? Do they get to go the clubhouse? What's in it for them, other than a hope that their paychecks will come more reliably?

For founders, YC, fuck yeah--but I don't think for employees the value prop is there compared with having actual awesome compensation.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#147

Post by meerita »

The panorama in Spain for many startups:

- 30k/year (minus all the taxes) ~21/23k/y - 28 days for holidays. - No health insurances (free health insurance on the country) - No conferences - No pluses.

Profitable companies: a bit more of money, but not that much: 35K/year.

About shares, as usual: the promise. some of them makes you sign something but to opt those you need to stay around 5 years, wait to be IPO or you can sell the opt to the company for a really stupid price.

With taxes you pay the pension, etc.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#148

Post by coolsunglasses »

etchalon wrote: post #114
coolsunglasses wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean just insurance either. Independence and the ability to come and go as I please is more valuable to me than whatever risk/reward calculation you're working with in your head.

Eh. Personally, I was a contractor for a long time, and I realized that the whole "independent" thing was total BS. 1. I was never independent. I had a "client", or a "contractor", I was obligated to fulfill. I only got paid if I did so, and I only got more contract jobs if I did a good job. 2. When one contract was over, I had to run out and find another one. While doing so, I was making exactly nothing. If I timed…

I prefer working with clients to having a boss. I prefer having customers to having a client. You're always answerable to someone or something, even if it's begging daddy to refill that trust fund.

I add 2 months of runway for each week I work. Not exactly a big deal.

>Often it meant I had to do double-shift days to make up the lost time.

I'm starting to develop a picture of you under-billing, if you felt obligated to do so.

>There was absolutely no "reward"

Can we just get to the part where we recognize we value different things and move on?

>As a salaried employee, I was still completely free to quit.

Except for the part where if you're the type of person to prefer working on 5, 10, or 15 different things a year as opposed to one thing for 5 years, you're penalized as an employee because you'll be seen as a job hopper. It does real palpable damage to your career as a salaried employee to quit a job.

>Being a contractor doesn't make you free or independent in any way that a salaried employee isn't.

That's plainly false.

This was always a waste of time, but now it's an expensive waste of time.

Troll somebody else who hasn't drunk your kool-aid.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#149

Post by coolsunglasses »

richardking wrote: post #142
coolsunglasses wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean just insurance either. Independence and the ability to come and go as I please is more valuable to me than whatever risk/reward calculation you're working with in your head.

can you really 'come and go as you please' if you are a contractor, or even if you are working on your own thing?

I do.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#150

Post by rdl »

hkmurakami wrote: post #115
coolsunglasses wrote: post #2

Based on how he's valuing his PTO, he's valuing his time at either $328, $218, or $447 per diem. I hope he's not valuing his PTO based on the salary he's getting. I'm a 24 year old with no college degree and I currently cost about $800 per day on contract. (Not hypothetical, billing at that rate right now.) I'd rather make twice as much money consulting, pick my own damn healthcare plan, go to whatever conferences I…

Just FYI, insurance premiums can skyrocket one you get older or develop serious health issues (and such health issues really can come suddenly -- autoimmune diseases, etc). I think you've built a wonderful position for yourself, but I'd urge you to be mindful of thepotential pitfalls in the future.

A lot of the health insurance risk is changing in 2014, though, so it's actually viable to have lower coverage insurance now and plan to upgrade IFF a major medical condition happens. (yes, this makes no sense from an insurance market perspective for the insurers)
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