Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

mhalligan.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 360 posts

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#101

Post by etchalon »

etchalon wrote: post #82
nilkn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said it was entitled to want to be paid the market value. Entitlement is a personality trait, not an aspect of rationality or reasoning.

You basically (literally) said exactly that. "Entitlement" is not a personality trait, "acting entitled" is, and even then it's only a negative if you aren't entitled to whatever you're "acting entitled" about. "Entitlement" is literally nothing more than having the "right to something." And as a human, you are absolutely entitled to being paid exactly what you are worth.

I do not understand what you're saying anymore, as it makes no sense.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#102

Post by joeblau »

Just based on reading the Author's concerns, it seems like there would be too much risk for him to join any start-up. People aren't starting companies at YC so they can have a "good benefits" package. In their eyes, they are trying to disrupt industry and change the world. Joining a start-up for a good benefits package with hopes and dreams of making enough money to buy a house is a pretty big bet to make.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#103

Post by arbuge »

swalkergibson wrote: post #73
arbuge wrote: post #35

Just curious on the part where he says that the stock is most likely worthless. Are there any hard numbers on the average outcome of YC startups, and startups in general? I mean, all else being equal, what is the expected value of 0.5% of the equity of the average startup at stage X these days?

It all depends. Dilution is a real killer. You may have 0.5% today, but what about after Series B? Or, heaven forbid, a down-round? Even if you sustained no dilution, 0.5% of $100M is only $500K. Don't get me wrong, $500K is nice, but by no means is that life-changing money.

Agreed re: dilution - that's the reason I inserted "at stage X" in the original question on expected value.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#104

Post by mseebach »

edent wrote: post #23

From a UK perspective - this post is nuts! I've worked with a few London based startups (and interviewed for several). Holiday 28 days minimum - as per law https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/entitlement Rarely offered health care but - for all its flaws - our National Health Service is pretty good. Shares - yup, they're almost always going to be worthless. Pension - every company has offered me at least 5%…

> especially as healthcare costs (which I understand to be the biggest burden in the US) are essentially nil

They're not nil, that expense just isn't optional (taxes). It's the risk of an individual to find himself with no health care that's essentially nil.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#105

Post by nilkn »

etchalon wrote: post #101
etchalon wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You basically (literally) said exactly that. "Entitlement" is not a personality trait, "acting entitled" is, and even then it's only a negative if you aren't entitled to whatever you're "acting entitled" about. "Entitlement" is literally nothing more than having the "right to something." And as a human, you are absolutely entitled to being paid exactly what you are worth.

I do not understand what you're saying anymore, as it makes no sense.

I know you don't. That's why I already wrote that this discussion isn't going anywhere.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#106

Post by droithomme »

PeterisP wrote: post #25
selectout wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not me personally but an engineer at my current startup is taking 5 weeks off but the typical "Unlimited Vacation" also mentions as long as you get your work done. So they will be taking 5 weeks off traveling the world, but they are still getting work done (not the typical hours by any means, but getting what needs to be done accomplished).

5 weeks travelling and doing work = 0 weeks vacation. It is really great, it is flextime+great office+telecommuting which are all nice things; but it's apples-and-oranges compared to a vacation. I mean, all the psych research says that it takes at least 4+ days until people really get work off their mind, and the work-mindset starts a few days before returning. So vacations start to be effective at a minimum of 2 con…

Agreed. Working from the beach in Thailand and getting all your work done is no different than working from your house in Oakland and getting all your work done which is no different from working at the coffee shop across the street from work and getting all your work done.

Classifying any of these as "employee is out taking vacation time" is a giant spin.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#107

Post by hkmurakami »

jbellis wrote: post #47
edent wrote: post #23

From a UK perspective - this post is nuts! I've worked with a few London based startups (and interviewed for several). Holiday 28 days minimum - as per law https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/entitlement Rarely offered health care but - for all its flaws - our National Health Service is pretty good. Shares - yup, they're almost always going to be worthless. Pension - every company has offered me at least 5%…

On the flip side, I've seen insane (from a US standpoint) rules on vesting at UK startups, like "the company gets all your options back if you leave." Don't know if this is SOP or not.

I can't name the company, but this isn't limited to the UK. It's found in other countries too. Maybe there's too much history/tradition/peer-pressure/competition in the States for this kind of arrangement to fly.

I'd immediately bolt for the door if someone demanded such a structure on me.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#108

Post by arbuge »

genericresponse wrote: post #63
arbuge wrote: post #35

Just curious on the part where he says that the stock is most likely worthless. Are there any hard numbers on the average outcome of YC startups, and startups in general? I mean, all else being equal, what is the expected value of 0.5% of the equity of the average startup at stage X these days?

The expected value of 0.5% of the equity in that startup should be 0.5% of the valuation. That said, not everyone has the savings or investments to offset that level of risk. For someone with a "low" risk-tolerance, that value drops dramatically. Remember risk in our (assumed rational) finance market is as much tied to your ability to have enough liquidity as it is to have a positive outcome.

Pre-exit valuations are the opinions of just one - a few investors though. Hard data from previous exits is a different thing altogether.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#109

Post by frostli »

The assumption in the post is: he doesn't really believe in those companies. He only thought the company will go at most 2X of the current valuation and will never have a chance to go IPO itself.

In the start-up world, if you don't think the company is going to grow then what's the point joining the team? It sounds like the author is looking for settling down, a stable income which is more suitable with bigger companies like Google.

It's weird to compare two different kinds of companies. High risk high return, low risk low return always holds. He's looking for something with low risk and of course, he doesn't want to work with any Y Companies. No right or wrong tho, personal choice.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#110

Post by jaggederest »

Zimahl wrote: post #37

Here's what a good benefits package looks like from a company who cares about attracting senior employees, and not just college kids: - Agreement to pay for 3 conferences per year(Surge, Velocity, and ChefConf), an $18k/year benefit - $2500/year FSA, Employer funded - 401k, 5% match. (II end up with $24,750/year in my 401K plan) - Full health insurance for myself and my daughter, no Premium - Health club membership -…

I've worked for 3 startups in Portland that offered those benefits.

I now work remotely for a Fortune 100 that gives me a major portion of those benefits, plus a higher salary.

It can be done, my Portland-based comrade. I'll buy you a beer sometime if you like.

Post reply on HN