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Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

mhalligan.com

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Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#81

Post by emillerm »

PeterisP wrote: post #25
selectout wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not me personally but an engineer at my current startup is taking 5 weeks off but the typical "Unlimited Vacation" also mentions as long as you get your work done. So they will be taking 5 weeks off traveling the world, but they are still getting work done (not the typical hours by any means, but getting what needs to be done accomplished).

5 weeks travelling and doing work = 0 weeks vacation. It is really great, it is flextime+great office+telecommuting which are all nice things; but it's apples-and-oranges compared to a vacation. I mean, all the psych research says that it takes at least 4+ days until people really get work off their mind, and the work-mindset starts a few days before returning. So vacations start to be effective at a minimum of 2 con…

Can you reference any studies? If this is true, I've been doing it all wrong...

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#82

Post by etchalon »

nilkn wrote: post #66
etchalon wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is what the market is. While it may not be "socially equitable", senior developers are currently the perfect combination of high-demand and low-supply. It is not "entitled" to demand to be paid the maximum value the market will bear for your skills. It is stupid to do otherwise.

I never said it was entitled to want to be paid the market value. Entitlement is a personality trait, not an aspect of rationality or reasoning.

You basically (literally) said exactly that. "Entitlement" is not a personality trait, "acting entitled" is, and even then it's only a negative if you aren't entitled to whatever you're "acting entitled" about.

"Entitlement" is literally nothing more than having the "right to something." And as a human, you are absolutely entitled to being paid exactly what you are worth.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#83

Post by crusso »

edent wrote: post #23

From a UK perspective - this post is nuts! I've worked with a few London based startups (and interviewed for several). Holiday 28 days minimum - as per law https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/entitlement Rarely offered health care but - for all its flaws - our National Health Service is pretty good. Shares - yup, they're almost always going to be worthless. Pension - every company has offered me at least 5%…

I do wonder why the UK scene doesn't seem quite so vibrant

You just go through a list of state-required benefits or drains on individual risk taking and then you wonder at why the startup scene isn't quite so vibrant?

Risk taking requires the ability to... uh... take risks.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#84

Post by chimeracoder »

donall wrote: post #71
mmt wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Health insurance is a goddamn mess and a company can't expect to get it right in an afternoon, but it is important. How about just throwing money at the problem and outsourcing to someone like Trinet? Even if the company doesn't contribute much to premiums, I've always liked, as an employee, having Trinet.

I have had a series of bad experiences with Trinet. Not so bad that it's ruined my life, but bad like "I can't believe this is the best we can do for HR". I like the idea of outsourcing that sort of thing so we can focus on the hacking, but I feel like that particular space is ripe for disruption (to use a clichéd term).

Out of curiosity, what kind of bad experiences did you have? What were you disappointed with?

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#85

Post by guelo »

jodi wrote: post #68
arbuge wrote: post #35

Just curious on the part where he says that the stock is most likely worthless. Are there any hard numbers on the average outcome of YC startups, and startups in general? I mean, all else being equal, what is the expected value of 0.5% of the equity of the average startup at stage X these days?

Here are a couple ways that common stock can become worthless: - The most obvious and common, the company fails / does not exit - The company raises money and the investors have liquidation preferences. This means that the investor is guaranteed to make 3 times what they put in when the company is acquired. So, for example, if you raise 10 million dollars and your investors have 3x liquidation preferences, you have t…

Besides liquidation, companies might just ask for the options back like Zynga did.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#86

Post by crapshoot101 »

jodi wrote: post #68
arbuge wrote: post #35

Just curious on the part where he says that the stock is most likely worthless. Are there any hard numbers on the average outcome of YC startups, and startups in general? I mean, all else being equal, what is the expected value of 0.5% of the equity of the average startup at stage X these days?

Here are a couple ways that common stock can become worthless: - The most obvious and common, the company fails / does not exit - The company raises money and the investors have liquidation preferences. This means that the investor is guaranteed to make 3 times what they put in when the company is acquired. So, for example, if you raise 10 million dollars and your investors have 3x liquidation preferences, you have t…

Respectfully, I cannot recall seeing a single YC company which has given up 3X LP at any stage short of an out and out crisis - and I've seen a few (work on the investor side). Hell, short of short-term debt which is clearly a bridge to an acquisition of sorts, you never see those terms. The high level point is valid (LP is there for a reason), but not to the scale you talk about it.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#87

Post by coolsunglasses »

fusiongyro wrote: post #59
coolsunglasses wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair statement, but I'm trying to fight a different sort of risk than going without a paycheck.

Care to elaborate?

I value independence and eventual ramen profitability far, far higher than the average person. A life spent working for other people instead of customers or fans is a huge risk and I'm running from it.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#88

Post by mattvanhorn »

nilkn wrote: post #26
pnathan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this entitlement? He's rationally comparing total compensation packages and choosing the one that benefits him the best. This is something that even high schoolers working crappy unskilled jobs do. They look at the market and pick the job they feels the best suited for them. Yes, this particular individual gets well compensated compared to many. So what?

It's his tone which comes off as entitled to me. Very, very entitled. He sounds like one cocky dude to me. Let's all take a moment to reflect on a few things. For instance, we are pretty lucky to be passionate about something which just happens to be pretty good at producing a lot of monetary value for companies, and consequently it's not too hard for us to convince companies to pay us a lot and give us great benefit…

In the words of Clint Eastwood's character in Unforgiven:

"'Deserve's got nothin' to do with it" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpDkYZWeeVg)

I'm "entitled" to a market rate. I'm also "entitled" to negotiate for the highest rate the market will bear.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#89

Post by bennyg »

nilkn wrote: post #64
swilk wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All my finance friends make about 10x what my engineer friends make and work equally hard. If you compare engineers to lawyers, doctors, and executives we are very much underpaid.

I don't see the point. There's always going to be someone making far, far more money than you make. It doesn't matter if you're an engineer, a lawyer, a doctor, an executive, or the president of a country. That doesn't mean that you should feel so inherently entitled to the compensation that you do get. While some executive may be making 10x your salary, you're probably making 10x the salary of someone else who works…

Exactly, I know plenty of people in the food industry that work harder than some engineers I've seen.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#90

Post by coolsunglasses »

etchalon wrote: post #72
coolsunglasses wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been contracting for a long time, I know the risks and it's not just about the money. It's about the self ownership. Of course it's better for the company, they want the ability to coerce the employee and hold their livelihood/healthcare hostage. With my arrangement, I keep the same healthcare plan no matter who I'm working for or what I'm doing.

Huh? You can basically always keep your health insurance. You just have to pay a higher premium than your employer paid for it. They aren't "holding your health care hostage", they're given you a benefit of being a part of a group; a risk pool insurance companies are willing to give discounted rates to. Get fired, or quit? Just call the insurance company and ask what it'd cost to keep your coverage as is. There's gen…

I didn't mean just insurance either.

Independence and the ability to come and go as I please is more valuable to me than whatever risk/reward calculation you're working with in your head.

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