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Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

mhalligan.com

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Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#51

Post by vnorby »

I don't think it's fair to bunch all 400+ Y Combinator companies together like this. You'll probably find good and bad benefits packages with the same frequency across all small startups. Y Combinator certainly does not get their hands dirty in the operational, HR, or recruitment strategies of their funded companies; that's really up to the founders.

Perhaps what you want to say is that you don't like the benefits packages that startups with young founders provide, because they don't understand what a more senior engineer expects on that side of the compensation equation. That might be more fair.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#52

Post by etchalon »

nilkn wrote: post #26
pnathan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this entitlement? He's rationally comparing total compensation packages and choosing the one that benefits him the best. This is something that even high schoolers working crappy unskilled jobs do. They look at the market and pick the job they feels the best suited for them. Yes, this particular individual gets well compensated compared to many. So what?

It's his tone which comes off as entitled to me. Very, very entitled. He sounds like one cocky dude to me. Let's all take a moment to reflect on a few things. For instance, we are pretty lucky to be passionate about something which just happens to be pretty good at producing a lot of monetary value for companies, and consequently it's not too hard for us to convince companies to pay us a lot and give us great benefit…

The market is what the market is. While it may not be "socially equitable", senior developers are currently the perfect combination of high-demand and low-supply.

It is not "entitled" to demand to be paid the maximum value the market will bear for your skills. It is stupid to do otherwise.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#53

Post by abstractbill »

seeingfurther wrote: post #20

Every thing comes down to risk vs reward. Founders risk it all to found companies and rightfully have the greatest reward. Startup employees haven't risked as much but their risk is compensated with appropriate equity the earlier they join and the more risk they take on in the form of lower salary and benefits. YC definitively reduces risk and increases the potential for reward. It's easier for YC companies to raise…

Founders risk it all to found companies and rightfully have the greatest reward. Startup employees haven't risked as much

True(er) a decade or so ago, but definitely not true today. Founders currently, if they're doing it right, risk a bruised ego and a submarket salary for a few years. Employee risk is about the same.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#54

Post by seeingfurther »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #43
potatolicious wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Startup employees haven't risked as much but their risk is compensated with appropriate equity the earlier they join and the more risk they take on in the form of lower salary and benefits." This is the part where we wave our hands and drop a smoke bomb. You're theoretically right, but it never works out that way. For all intents and purposes, in the current state of the tech economy, there is no inherent risk to…

I've been amazed the typical equity for early employees has stayed as low as it has for as long as it has.

It's going to change.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#55

Post by munificent »

niggler wrote: post #40
coolsunglasses wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't forgotten, that's why it's so hard to hire.

"They weren't forgotten, that's why it's so hard to hire." The labor force remembers, but the startups seemed to have forgotten

That's because many of the people founding these startups were in elementary school when it happened.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#56

Post by mmt »

michaelochurch wrote: post #7

The prestige asset generated by YC is interesting, because I bet it's going to have an unintended consequence of increasing the social difference between founders and employees. If you're a YC founder, you're in the club. You were picked. It's great if you succeed; if you fail, you have a network. If you're a YC employee, you're just an employee of a small startup. YC founders seem, at least from this, to be blind to…

>Health insurance is a goddamn mess and a company can't expect to get it right in an afternoon, but it is important.

How about just throwing money at the problem and outsourcing to someone like Trinet? Even if the company doesn't contribute much to premiums, I've always liked, as an employee, having Trinet.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#57

Post by seeingfurther »

abstractbill wrote: post #53
seeingfurther wrote: post #20

Every thing comes down to risk vs reward. Founders risk it all to found companies and rightfully have the greatest reward. Startup employees haven't risked as much but their risk is compensated with appropriate equity the earlier they join and the more risk they take on in the form of lower salary and benefits. YC definitively reduces risk and increases the potential for reward. It's easier for YC companies to raise…

Founders risk it all to found companies and rightfully have the greatest reward. Startup employees haven't risked as much True(er) a decade or so ago, but definitely not true today. Founders currently, if they're doing it right, risk a bruised ego and a submarket salary for a few years. Employee risk is about the same.

Not true in the least. Maybe for a tiny fraction of founders who can de-risk incredibly fast, get funding or profits and make their first hire. This is not the typical scenario by a long shot.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#58

Post by coolsunglasses »

etchalon wrote: post #42
coolsunglasses wrote: post #2

Based on how he's valuing his PTO, he's valuing his time at either $328, $218, or $447 per diem. I hope he's not valuing his PTO based on the salary he's getting. I'm a 24 year old with no college degree and I currently cost about $800 per day on contract. (Not hypothetical, billing at that rate right now.) I'd rather make twice as much money consulting, pick my own damn healthcare plan, go to whatever conferences I…

As a contractor, if you're taking in 800 dollars a day, and buying your own health insurance, you are not taking in 800 dollars a day. In fact, your take home pay is probably less than his (at least on the high-end of the per-diem). 1. You're paying a higher marginal tax rate on your earnings than he is on his salary. Self-employment tax is a real bitch. 2. If you're buying your own health insurance, the benefits you…

I've been contracting for a long time, I know the risks and it's not just about the money. It's about the self ownership.

Of course it's better for the company, they want the ability to coerce the employee and hold their livelihood/healthcare hostage.

With my arrangement, I keep the same healthcare plan no matter who I'm working for or what I'm doing.

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#59

Post by fusiongyro »

coolsunglasses wrote: post #38
fusiongyro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way of looking at it is that he's trading ~$500 per day for less risk. You're in a position to soak risk, and he isn't. It doesn't make either of you irrational.

That's a fair statement, but I'm trying to fight a different sort of risk than going without a paycheck.

Care to elaborate?

Re: Benefits matter, or why I won't work for your Y Combinator startup

#60

Post by lbarrow »

danso wrote: post #6

> Though they brag about their "Unlimited Vacation" (today's buzzword), they offered only 15 days of PTO, standard for any professional job in the United States. Has anyone ever tried to take advantage of "Unlimited Vacation" at an early startup? I mean, sincerely tried to invoke that contractual promise as a way to take 3+ weeks consecutively?

I work for Braintree. We aren't early-stage anymore, but we really mean it when we say no vacation policy. Personally, I'm going to Europe for 3 1/2 weeks in June (in which I will do no work, but I might go to a conference at the end). I also took time off for Christmas and Thanksgiving.

No vacation policies are meaningful with the right company culture.

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