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The dire state of WordPress

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Re: The dire state of WordPress

#11

Post by booruguru »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #3

I'm yet to inherit a PHP project that does not contain a file called "functions.php" and it always makes my heart sink when I see it. What I don't get is the demand for all kinds of stuff to be built on top of wordpress that doesn't really have much to do with content management or blogging. For example online games, CRM systems, auction sites etc. Seems a bit like asking for a CMS system that has been implemented as…

People treat WordPress like a Swiss Army Knife because they can. Why build an online directory or CRM or auction site from scratch when you can just use WordPress? It can be a bit sloppy, code-wise, but it works and you can get the job done a lot faster than it would take to do it from scratch.

Consider an online business directory. You could just build one from scratch or use some script designed for that purpose but WP simply offers more flexibility. If you decide you want a Google Map displayed in each listing, just download the relevant plugin. If you want to add oEmbed functionality (for, let's say, embedded videos), it's already built-in. If you want to do advance taxonomy queries use the Taxonomy Drill-Down plugin, etc.

Yes, it's all held together with chewing gum, but it works.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#12

Post by epoxyhockey »

I might be in the minority on HN, but I think that WordPress is doing fine just as it is. Whereas my gag reflex kicks in at the mention of a Drupal contract, WordPress is still pleasant-ish to work with. It's simple enough that I can get my own custom work done without having to spend a ton of time fighting the core system. Though, YMMV depending on the nature of the custom application, I'm sure.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#13

Post by bobsy »

As far as I can tell WordPress is stuck. Its success is largely down to the number of theme's and plugins it currently has. You can build pretty much any basic functionality by just installing the plugin's for it.

A rewrite would probably benefit the performance and abilities of Wordpress but it would be at the cost of ALL the themes and plugins. The platform would start again from scratch. I don't follow Wordpress too closely but I haven't heard of any one talking about - or having the energy for - such a rewrite.

Would Automattic even allow such a rewrite to go through? It would be a horrible transition for Wordpress.com.

As for alternatives... There are a number of good CMS with a well designed, easy to use admin panel. They aren't popular though, plugins are scarce and support is uncertain. This often makes Wordpress the best choice by default. Which is kinda sad.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#14

Post by bradwestness »

hadem wrote: post #10
jiggy2011 wrote: post #3

I'm yet to inherit a PHP project that does not contain a file called "functions.php" and it always makes my heart sink when I see it. What I don't get is the demand for all kinds of stuff to be built on top of wordpress that doesn't really have much to do with content management or blogging. For example online games, CRM systems, auction sites etc. Seems a bit like asking for a CMS system that has been implemented as…

It makes me wonder if the companies behind that online game and auction site were "sold" Wordpress by a developer/designer as a way they could easily update their website. Perhaps whoever pitched Wordpress as a solution in those cases didn't have the knowledge to build a fully functional website from the ground up without Wordpress. As a fellow PHP developer, I can say I share the heart sinking feeling when I see "fu…

A lot of it is due to the fact that it's much easier to sell an end-user on a plugin to their existing site that requires little to no server configuration than a completely separate system.

Whether or not it makes sense as a WordPress add-on is not really taken into account by users, who just see it as easy to set up and manageable from the same dashboard as the rest of their site.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#15

Post by bradwestness »

jaynate wrote: post #2

Software rewrites are extremely challenging, and more often than not, fail (good example: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html ). Perhaps a more measured factoring approach over time would be more appropriate?

I don't understand the point of what he's proposing. Rewriting WordPress as completely as he wants and breaking all existing plugins and themes would surely just result in someone forking the existing code and maintaining a backwards-compatible version.

The ecosystem is the valuable thing, and they'd be insane to throw that away. All the problems he notes are basically just a result of WordPress growing and changing over the decade it's been around, and/or direct results of having originally been written in PHP 4.

Gradual refactoring, as you say, makes more sense. Otherwise you might as well just build an entirely new system from scratch.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#16

Post by corresation »

"I’m not going to list all the things that make WP at odds with best practises, but here are the brass tacks"

There is a strange paradox that an infatuation with best practices seldom yields a successful product...because it seldom yields a product at all. And those products that do scratch itches and grow and evolve tend to have widely criticized code bases.

Wikipedia, Wordpress, Firefox, mySQL, Linux...there isn't a successful major open source product that doesn't have legions of code purists telling everyone why they're in dire condition and if only....

Not trying to be cynical, but it is odd how often these sorts of posts appear, always under the pretense that something must be done now or everything is going to fail.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#17

Post by bzudo »

jsdalton wrote: post #7

To paraphrase Churchill, Wordpress is the worst CMS -- except for all the others. I'd love to find an open-source CMS (preferably in Python or Ruby) with clean, secure, elegant code and a well-organized framework that comes with a friendly admin and active, responsive development community like Wordpress, but so far I've got nothing. (If anyone has any suggestions, please do feel free to share them!)

I would love to have an open-source, Python based, CMS. Even better, one I could install on a GoDaddy domain, as easy as I can install Wordpress.

To me, that is the biggest reason Wordpress is the best, except for all others.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#18

Post by booruguru »

Here's a suggestion,

If we can't get WordPress to change, why not fork it and build a "developer" friendly version while maintaining compatibility with subsequent iterations of WordPress?

Frankly, I find the people who run the WP development community to be insufferable (Matt included). If you've ever read their discussions for code changes, it just makes you want to pull your hair out. Their pedantic in fighting rivals Wikipedia.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#19

Post by riccardoforina »

bzudo wrote: post #17
jsdalton wrote: post #7

To paraphrase Churchill, Wordpress is the worst CMS -- except for all the others. I'd love to find an open-source CMS (preferably in Python or Ruby) with clean, secure, elegant code and a well-organized framework that comes with a friendly admin and active, responsive development community like Wordpress, but so far I've got nothing. (If anyone has any suggestions, please do feel free to share them!)

I would love to have an open-source, Python based, CMS. Even better, one I could install on a GoDaddy domain, as easy as I can install Wordpress. To me, that is the biggest reason Wordpress is the best, except for all others.

Have a look at django-cms.org

The "automagical installation" is something that can be done, but it's up to the provider to do it. A Python website (as well as for Ruby) ain't a bunch of files served by Apache, but something more... smart.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#20

Post by [deleted] »

corresation wrote: post #16

"I’m not going to list all the things that make WP at odds with best practises, but here are the brass tacks" There is a strange paradox that an infatuation with best practices seldom yields a successful product...because it seldom yields a product at all. And those products that do scratch itches and grow and evolve tend to have widely criticized code bases. Wikipedia, Wordpress, Firefox, mySQL, Linux...there isn't…

[deleted]
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