Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail" • Hacker News Board

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#41

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:05 PM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #22

swombat wrote: post #12

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. I see no indication that there was any communication between 37Signals and GetSatisfaction prior to this very public post. I've had this kind of thing done to me before, and I think it's really out of order. Essentially, 37Signals have decided, in this case, to trade politeness and "being good" for making…

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. Whereas I think a public statement of outrage is entirely justified. Take a look at the screenshot. GetSatisfaction has been collecting feedback under the 37signals name for at least a month. Those people who typed messages into GetSatisfaction expecting a response have been disappointed for a while. Anyon…

[deleted]

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#42

Post by oldwesley » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:07 PM UTC

lsb wrote: post #2

It sounds more like fraud and misrepresentation.

An enterprising lawyer could put together a compelling class action case if only GetSatisfaction's pockets weren't so shallow. I'd like to see them get their asses handed to them for this shit.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#43

Post by Gibbon » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:08 PM UTC

So GetSatisfaction mildy misrepresents their association with 37Signals and uses their IP without authorization.. and 37Signals counters with a potentially slanderous letter in a public forum? Not exactly a great way to start a dialogue or build a legal case.

Most any other company would first engage with a civil, private, discussion, followed by legal action before firing off a public lambasting as a last resort (a rare event at that.)

There may be some valid points in the post, but whining in public makes you like a fool, to customers, to other businesses and to the public at large. Totally unprofessional.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#44

Post by webwright » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:11 PM UTC

markh wrote: post #21

swombat wrote: post #12

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. I see no indication that there was any communication between 37Signals and GetSatisfaction prior to this very public post. I've had this kind of thing done to me before, and I think it's really out of order. Essentially, 37Signals have decided, in this case, to trade politeness and "being good" for making…

I'm in the camp that says 37Signals have a valid point. Let's assume their intention is not about traffic but is to pressure GetSatisfaction into rectifying the situation as quickly as possible (and not just for 37Signals) then as harsh as the post may have been: 1) 37Signals have used their considerable influence to achieve change on behalf of many sites who have far less influence 2) 37Signals used the open model o…

Bullshit (will probably get a downmod or two for my vehemence).

If Jason Fried dropped them a note saying, "I almost hit PUBLISH on the following rant-style post, but I wanted to drop you guys a line first", they would've jumped just as far, just as fast.

It would've cost him exactly NOTHING to give it a day or two on private channels before posting a rant other than the time it took to find a contact form and hit "ctrl-V".

Public rants are fun. Causing public harm to someone who has slighted you is gratifying. Getting a reaction from supporters and an apology from the rant-target is gratifying. That's the motivation of this post. Self-gratification. I generally love 37s, but not here.

Pretty disappointing.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#45

Post by swombat » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:12 PM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #22

swombat wrote: post #12

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. I see no indication that there was any communication between 37Signals and GetSatisfaction prior to this very public post. I've had this kind of thing done to me before, and I think it's really out of order. Essentially, 37Signals have decided, in this case, to trade politeness and "being good" for making…

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. Whereas I think a public statement of outrage is entirely justified. Take a look at the screenshot. GetSatisfaction has been collecting feedback under the 37signals name for at least a month. Those people who typed messages into GetSatisfaction expecting a response have been disappointed for a while. Anyon…

People have disagreements and confrontation all the time.

Mature people resolve those potential conflicts through calm discussion.

Immature people resort to attacking the people they disagree with.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#46

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:14 PM UTC

markh wrote: post #21

swombat wrote: post #12

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. I see no indication that there was any communication between 37Signals and GetSatisfaction prior to this very public post. I've had this kind of thing done to me before, and I think it's really out of order. Essentially, 37Signals have decided, in this case, to trade politeness and "being good" for making…

I'm in the camp that says 37Signals have a valid point. Let's assume their intention is not about traffic but is to pressure GetSatisfaction into rectifying the situation as quickly as possible (and not just for 37Signals) then as harsh as the post may have been: 1) 37Signals have used their considerable influence to achieve change on behalf of many sites who have far less influence 2) 37Signals used the open model o…

[deleted]

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#47

Post by scott_s » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:14 PM UTC

webwright wrote: post #40

scott_s wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The language was simple and clear. I have difficulty believing language that straight-forward was an accident.

They don't mean accident in that they fell on a keyboard and that came out. They mean accident in that someone wrote it as placeholder (or supposed final) copy and it didn't get reviewed/agreed to by the team before it got launched. Clearly some writer was overzealous and the higher-ups didn't get a chance to read it. Happens all the time at small startups.

That badge is/was on every page for companies that haven't set up an account with them - which I assume is a lot. And according to what other commenters here have said, it's been worded as such since launch. I have a hard time believing that the "higher-ups" hadn't read something as ubiquitous as this on their own site.

Also, at a small startup, shouldn't there be very little distance from the writers and the "higher-ups"? In a truly small startup, I would assume the descion-makers are the ones to write the copy.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#48

Post by evgen » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:14 PM UTC

webwright wrote: post #40

scott_s wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The language was simple and clear. I have difficulty believing language that straight-forward was an accident.

They don't mean accident in that they fell on a keyboard and that came out. They mean accident in that someone wrote it as placeholder (or supposed final) copy and it didn't get reviewed/agreed to by the team before it got launched. Clearly some writer was overzealous and the higher-ups didn't get a chance to read it. Happens all the time at small startups.

> Happens all the time at small startups.

ORLY? How many layers of management bullshit are there between the decision-makers at Get Satisfaction and the people writing their core message? This is not some random page buried deep within the site, it is top right on most of the pages they are generating.

I have a feeling that what they mean by "accident" is that someone with a voice decided to call them on it...

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#49

Post by scott_s » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:16 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #45

mechanical_fish wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. Whereas I think a public statement of outrage is entirely justified. Take a look at the screenshot. GetSatisfaction has been collecting feedback under the 37signals name for at least a month. Those people who typed messages into GetSatisfaction expecting a response have been disappointed for a while. Anyon…

People have disagreements and confrontation all the time. Mature people resolve those potential conflicts through calm discussion. Immature people resort to attacking the people they disagree with.

When the harm caused is largely that of public image, I think a public explanation is a reasonable response.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#50

Post by wheels » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:20 PM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #22

swombat wrote: post #12

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. I see no indication that there was any communication between 37Signals and GetSatisfaction prior to this very public post. I've had this kind of thing done to me before, and I think it's really out of order. Essentially, 37Signals have decided, in this case, to trade politeness and "being good" for making…

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. Whereas I think a public statement of outrage is entirely justified. Take a look at the screenshot. GetSatisfaction has been collecting feedback under the 37signals name for at least a month. Those people who typed messages into GetSatisfaction expecting a response have been disappointed for a while. Anyon…

Loud public fuss is usually a reasonable backup plan if asking them to change doesn't work, but starting off by asking people to resolve something lends you credibility because you've tried to resolve things amicably. If you want to put a squeeze on them, you can add, "Or we're going to lambaste you in our popular blog."

But starting off that way is just obnoxious. Granted, as noted, being obnoxious drives page views.