Trek doesn't like this guy's tone, therefore he "can't" respond?
Because, you know, ad hominem claims of lack of civility will always get you around the issue of having to face and talk about the pain points in your software.
"Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
41–50 of 252 posts
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#42Well, programming is not always easy. I felt that kind of frustation when I tried for the first time almost every library/programming language that I'd worked with, either with java, backbone, coldfusion, rails... Trying and researching things is always part of the process, we can't run away from that.
It's far easier to start from a basic working shell that you can tweak than it is to build something from zero. Plenty of environments manage to pull off that basic working shell just fine. If you make a new app project in Xcode, the result builds and runs out of the box. If you make a new Android app project, the result builds and runs out of the box. I can try out Python code immediately after typing "python" at the command line.
Programming is inherently hard, but there's still a vast gulf between necessary and unnecessary difficulty. The problems here are solidly in the "unnecessary" category.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#43Trek is making a huge mistake IMHO. As a developer I can think of nothing more helpful than to get a "steam-of-consciousness" excerpt from our users. This is something no analytics package can tell you, if you want to make your "product" easy to use then this is the exact feedback you need. Delverworld was outlining the various pitfalls of getting started with ember.js and a core contributor shrugs it off because he…
I'm studying interaction design in Sweden at the moment. This is exactly the point they're drilling into our arrogant heads: you're not a genius, listen to your users. And then you actually have to convince your clients that they are not geniuses, that being an expert can also make you blind to things, and that they need to listen to their users.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#44Had a similar experience, then tried AngularJS. Couldn't be happier :) http://angularjs.org
same
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#45In my personal opinion, I'd like to present a fair comparison with another similar framework called KnockoutJS.
I challenge anyone on Hackernews to show me better documentation than this one:
Notice how things are explained so well as if they were explained to a child, this is how you should document, IMO.
Also, RP Neimeyer, the creator (EDIT: Committer) of this framework, has dedicated a significant portion of his life to helping out new comers to the framework, by having a separate website (http://knockmeout.net) (apart from the one above) to train and help people understand KnockoutJS. This is the kind of effort every developer should put in, IMO, if they want people to get off the ground with their framework.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#46Bad move Trek.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#47This is pretty much why I didn't end up using Ember in a new project. After getting the same errors and figuring out the same solutions, I figured I had better things to do with my time. It's a real shame, but just like developing web apps, you need to make sure users have a good first experience, otherwise they'll run away.
Did you find a suitable alternative to Ember?
Check out http://angularjs.org ;)
Plenty of very good introduction videos on youtube
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#48Trek is making a huge mistake IMHO. As a developer I can think of nothing more helpful than to get a "steam-of-consciousness" excerpt from our users. This is something no analytics package can tell you, if you want to make your "product" easy to use then this is the exact feedback you need. Delverworld was outlining the various pitfalls of getting started with ember.js and a core contributor shrugs it off because he…
You're absolutely right. I have seen this sort of attitude from quite a few domain experts - if you didn't get it, you aren't smart enough and "don't deserve to be in our group".
It's very sad because this is exactly the perfect feedback to know what the heck is wrong with your approach. We collect feedback for the tools that we put up on the web - these are usually non-technical people but people around me always dismisses it as "they aren't smart enough to get it" which annoys the hell out of me. Making things easy to understand and easy to use is what drives adoption rates. It's what made Apple the dominant. Sometimes handholding is necessary until knowledge has been successfully transferred over.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#49Had a similar experience, then tried AngularJS. Couldn't be happier :) http://angularjs.org
Same here - well documented although a lot of technical stuff involved but the fact that they use git for tutorials is nice. Loved playing around and being able to revert my changes back to the original state.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#50In my personal opinion, I'd like to present a fair comparison with another similar framework called KnockoutJS. I challenge anyone on Hackernews to show me better documentation than this one: http://learn.knockoutjs.com Notice how things are explained so well as if they were explained to a child, this is how you should document, IMO. Also, RP Neimeyer, the creator (EDIT: Committer) of this framework, has dedicated a…
I didn't like it. Too much visual overhead. I didn't know where to look.
Also a few things went wrong (don't know what). I was clicking around in code window when the tutorial guide on the left disappeared, then I tried refreshing and everything went blank. So I clicked on url in the navbar and pressed enter. Now the page loaded. But everything was blank inside the boxes.
OSX 10.8.3 with chrome.
Ohh, I found out what went wrong. I tried scrolling in the code window and the browser went back to the last page which it thinks is: http://learn.knockoutjs.com/ and that makes the tutorial disappear.