I'm always put off by the "look what can be done in just several lines!" code examples on frameworks front pages, they don't represent anything about the framework and usually the simpler the example, the more complex the framework is because everything is "magic" - try to do something differently and you end up hacking the framework internals.
"Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
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Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#32Well, programming is not always easy. I felt that kind of frustation when I tried for the first time almost every library/programming language that I'd worked with, either with java, backbone, coldfusion, rails... Trying and researching things is always part of the process, we can't run away from that.
> Well, programming is not always easy.
Nobody is saying that it is. OP's title was directly in response to the ember.js homepage (where it says "GETTING STARTED WITH EMBER.JS IS EASY."). S/he encountered some (pretty understandable) frustration and pointed out a few major shortfalls in ember's documentation, before asking for assistance; that's not at all running away from "the process".
Waving away legitimate (non-trolling) complaints in a dismissive way is pretty condescending, and not at all helpful to the main issue.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's quite simple and sufficient to say something along the lines of "You are right, we are working on this. In the mean time check out some example code here...".
(I fully agree with you and I think the guy's comment was really poor) "You are right" admits that it is not currently easy, and I don't think he wanted to say that outright.
There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong or admitting someone else was right. It shows maturity.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#34Trek is making a huge mistake IMHO. As a developer I can think of nothing more helpful than to get a "steam-of-consciousness" excerpt from our users. This is something no analytics package can tell you, if you want to make your "product" easy to use then this is the exact feedback you need. Delverworld was outlining the various pitfalls of getting started with ember.js and a core contributor shrugs it off because he…
No one likes having their shortcomings pointed out but it would have made much more sense for Trek to admit that getting started could be made easier and that the Ember.js team would look into ways to make it easier
Agreed. I recently had a new user point out in quite spectacularly a direct fashion how unfriendly the "Getting Started" section of one of my apps is. It made painful reading, but I would happily pay for users to get in touch like that.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#35This is pretty much why I didn't end up using Ember in a new project. After getting the same errors and figuring out the same solutions, I figured I had better things to do with my time. It's a real shame, but just like developing web apps, you need to make sure users have a good first experience, otherwise they'll run away.
Did you find a suitable alternative to Ember?
Did you find a suitable alternative to Ember?
I went with Amber in the end. I can't remember if it was more or less painful initially, but at that point I had spite in my fingers.
Not sure if there's also a lesson in that for startups: will you get lucky with some users just because they've had a bad experience immediately prior to checking you out?
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#36Trek must have been a perl monk, back in the day.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#37Well, programming is not always easy. I felt that kind of frustation when I tried for the first time almost every library/programming language that I'd worked with, either with java, backbone, coldfusion, rails... Trying and researching things is always part of the process, we can't run away from that.
Trying and researching things is always part of the process, we can't run away from that. You're right: there will always be a learning curve, whatever is being learnt. I think the problem with Ember is that it makes the opposite claims, and fails to deliver, only because the documentation is lacking.
Yes, I meant that when I start to learn thing like java and rails, everybody said that these product were easier than "x", but I didn't find them that way.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#38> The tone of this topic is not in line with the civil level of discourse I'd like to maintain here, so I cannot respond.
This sounds like the euphemistic version of "I don't like your attitude, so fuck off." Not exactly the answer I would want to get as a new user who is stumbling over terrible and inconsistent documentation and error messages.
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#39Had a similar experience, then tried AngularJS. Couldn't be happier :) http://angularjs.org
Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apparently when you need help you're supposed to wait a few hours to cool down before you actually post your question.
Not sure how serious you are, but I hate what you just said. It's like.. YOUR software made me frustrated, don't tell me to just wait it off. The reason I'm talking to you like this is YOUR code. And sure, when it's just raving, that may be right, but the guy genuinely TRIED and went through hoop after hoop.
He was being sarcastic. I'm pretty sure you both agree to the same point.