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Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

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Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#421

Post by Killah911 »

Amen! Married nearly a decade and no diamond ring exchanged. My wife and I both agrees on the Diamonds are Bullshit philosophy and decided not to burden our broke selves with even more debt, thereby ensuring marriage problems down the road.

It takes quite a bit of work to get over a good marketing campaign, it creates peer pressure which can from friends/coworkers who all wonder if you're really married/engaged since you don't have a ring on. Screw peer pressure, yet another sign we were right for each other.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#422

Post by astrodust »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #418
astrodust wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the world is filled with gold-diggers? No. Not true. You'll find it shocking that in some parts of the world people are happily married without any jewelry at all.

Seeking financial security != gold digging. It's not sexist or derogatory. Financial security and status are evolutionary concepts that predate the diamond district. Diamonds are just one manifestation of a deeper, hardwired instinct to seek fit and capable mates. This isn't a cynical concept, it's backed by studies of the entire animal kingdom, not just humans.

There are better ways to demonstrate your capability as a provider and evidence of financial security than buying diamond rings.

For example, demonstrate you can care for a dog goes a long way. Owning and maintaining a house even further.

A friend of mine got married. He could've bought his wife an extravagant engagement ring, but he put it to her in different terms, along the lines of: "Would you like an expensive ring, or what about something symbolic and we'll put the rest into a down-payment on a better house?"

They didn't squander tens of thousands on a wedding, nor went on a lavish honeymoon. They started out with money in the bank and a hefty down-payment made on a new house, not credit-card debt.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#423

Post by kamaal »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #341
enraged_camel wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security. Women want diamonds not because of any symbolic reasons ("Diamonds are forever!") but because of reasons that are much more practical: they want to be able to show off the diamonds t…

Financial security and status are two sides of the same coin.

Except that women value Financial security only when they grow old and are in need of money.

While they are young, status is the deal they want because of pressures from social circles.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#424

Post by daemin »

larrys wrote: post #378
rayiner wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't qualify (3), which is a very important one. I've got a daughter. She's only 4 months old, but I've had occasion to think a bit about this. I would not want her to marry someone who wasn't willing to give her a ring? Why? Reasons (1) and (2) I mentioned, sure, but also reason (3). It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him. People who buck social conventions sometimes b…

"It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him." Agree with you (and my daughter is much much older). I would be totally wary of a man that decided in lieu of buying a ring for my daughter to make a donation to a charity. The ring is a gift for the woman. In the event of a divorce the woman typically gets to keep the ring it's an asset and does have value despite all the drivel of t…

Would it not be more accurate to say that "he cares what you (being the father of the bride) think about him" ?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#425

Post by dreamdu5t »

kyrra wrote: post #132

(person I know) worked for GE (General Electric) on their industrial diamond production process back in the 90's, and I got to hear lots of fun stories from this. Diamonds that are man-made[1] are stronger (fewer imperfections) than those that are mined from the earth. Because of this, industrial diamonds tend to be man-made. (for reference, industrial diamonds when cutting hard materials, such as metals). While work…

It's not an artificial market, it's a real one, for real diamonds. Nobody has to buy them.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#426

Post by kamaal »

Goronmon wrote: post #410
jenius wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You absolutely nailed it with this comment. Was reading pieces of the debate out loud to my girlfriend, who is rather rational and intelligent but for some reason still wants a diamond ring (and I couldn't really figure out why) - when I read this and looked over, I knew you got it 100% right. Well done.

Yup, I've had a similar conversation. Basically came down to some variation on "I don't ask for a lot (she doesn't), but I want the diamond ring."

>>Basically came down to some variation on "I don't ask for a lot (she doesn't), but I want the diamond ring."

As some one newly married, I have observed the following.

    1. See . Demand for it.
    2. When rationally explained why we can't buy it.
    3. Simply state.. "I don't ask for a lot, but I want the ."
    4. I buy it.
Repeat steps 1 - 4 endlessly.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#427

Post by Helianthus »

res0nat0r wrote: post #402
Helianthus wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I don't care that you can assert that we're hypocritical. My honest response is "Duh." I care that when the lens is focused on you, the only defense you have is that you're just as bad as the rest of us. It's completely non-inspirational and devoid of the idea that we should try to be better. It's as empty as the diamonds you're defending.

He's not defending diamonds at all. He's pointing out that you have a relatively weak argument to be standing on if you are going to get outraged over how evil diamond are, then continue to happily consume dozens of other "evil" products in your everyday life. The only reason these other "evil" products are being brushed under the table is they are much harder for you to do without day to day than a diamond.

>He's not defending diamonds at all.

This is utter failure.

Do you think I'm not outraged at all the other things we see?

It absolutely _infuriates_ me that you expect me _not_ to be outraged at something because I should be _more_ outraged at _everything_.

It's _so useless_. It's _so dysfunctional_.

Believe me, my outrage is very _active_ and directed towards things outside this conversation.

In this conversation, though, it just seems to me that... there's just nothing ambiguous! Diamonds are awful. They're just awful.

And if that means I'm firing on a hair-trigger, well... so be it.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#428

Post by clobber »

rayiner wrote: post #133
clicks wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demonstrates the man's willingness to forgo the other things he could buy with the money for a gift for her that does not directly benefit him in any way; and 3) It demonstrates to the woman's peers her husband's social standing. To play devil's advocate here: If you substitute 'ring' with 'a $3k donation to redcross' you could still potentially qualify all of th…

It doesn't qualify (3), which is a very important one. I've got a daughter. She's only 4 months old, but I've had occasion to think a bit about this. I would not want her to marry someone who wasn't willing to give her a ring? Why? Reasons (1) and (2) I mentioned, sure, but also reason (3). It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him. People who buck social conventions sometimes b…

> It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him

This is a really disgusting line of thinking

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#429

Post by webosb »

gamegoblin wrote: post #34
uribs wrote: post #14

Isn't it much better to get very expensive gold jewelry instead of diamonds if one wants some? That's also shiny and should keep its value much better (since gold requires nuclear reaction to make).

I remember reading an article about a guy who stole a lot of money, then used it to buy diamonds. He got caught. The people he stole from thought "oh, not too bad then. We'll just sell the diamonds to recoup the money." But apparently no diamond vendors would buy them at anywhere near the price the thief did because diamonds are already marked up so much.

got a link for the article?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#430

Post by astrodust »

learc83 wrote: post #413
astrodust wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the world is filled with gold-diggers? No. Not true. You'll find it shocking that in some parts of the world people are happily married without any jewelry at all.

>So the world is filled with gold-diggers? No. Not true. Wanting a mate who is financially secure doesn't make a woman a gold digger. It's no different than the vast majority of men who want a physically attractive mate. >You'll find it shocking that in some parts of the world people are happily married without any jewelry at all. Yes, different cultures have different standards (and there are outliers within culture…

I think your viewpoint is skewed extremely strongly towards the peculiar tendencies expressed in Western society and America in particular.

Not everyone has two SUVs, two kids in private schools, and a vacation home.

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