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Diamonds Are Bullshit
151–160 of 774 posts
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#152While De Beers business plan was/is genius, i think Swaroski topped it. While De Beers sells useless rocks for top prices, Swaroski sell glass imitates of these for similar prices.
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demonstrates the man's willingness to forgo the other things he could buy with the money for a gift for her that does not directly benefit him in any way; and 3) It demonstrates to the woman's peers her husband's social standing. To play devil's advocate here: If you substitute 'ring' with 'a $3k donation to redcross' you could still potentially qualify all of th…
It doesn't qualify (3), which is a very important one. I've got a daughter. She's only 4 months old, but I've had occasion to think a bit about this. I would not want her to marry someone who wasn't willing to give her a ring? Why? Reasons (1) and (2) I mentioned, sure, but also reason (3). It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him. People who buck social conventions sometimes b…
how about a '$3k donation to redcross' and buying a fake diamond so that all her friends will think you are still part of the herd?
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…
Honestly, I find the notion of "man as provider" to be perverse, but if I buy into your worldview for a moment... 1) Your wife can measure how much you can provide just as well by having you actually provide valuable things. Like a house. 2) Your wife can measure your unselfishness by having you buy something that is actually valuable to her but useless to you. Like daycations with her friends. There's no sense in bu…
> Honestly, I find the notion of "man as provider" to be perverse, but if I buy into your worldview for a moment...
Why? It is, to this day, even in the U.S., the dominant arrangement between men and women, especially in the context of relationships that result in children.
> The need to demonstrate your social standing to other people is the result of low self-esteem.
That are very pragmatic reasons to invest in signals of social standing. It minimizes the cultural friction between yourself and the people who can help you get ahead, who are overwhelmingly people of high social standing themselves.
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demonstrates the man's willingness to forgo the other things he could buy with the money for a gift for her that does not directly benefit him in any way; and 3) It demonstrates to the woman's peers her husband's social standing. To play devil's advocate here: If you substitute 'ring' with 'a $3k donation to redcross' you could still potentially qualify all of th…
It doesn't qualify (3), which is a very important one. I've got a daughter. She's only 4 months old, but I've had occasion to think a bit about this. I would not want her to marry someone who wasn't willing to give her a ring? Why? Reasons (1) and (2) I mentioned, sure, but also reason (3). It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him. People who buck social conventions sometimes b…
> I would not want her to marry someone who wasn't willing to give her a ring
That seems like a really shallow and material evaluator of the character of a human being.
> People who buck social conventions sometimes become trend-setters and are incredibly successful for it, but more often just make life harder on themselves and the people that depend on them
Well thank God that Jackie Robinson, Marie Curie, or Barack Obama didn't believe this. Sometimes being different from the rest of the crowd and following your passions is more worthwhile rather than striving to "fit in" by purchasing status-enhancers.
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#156Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.
It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…
Except that in 1813, the diamond ring wasn't prevalent for engagements.
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm of the opinion that it's easier to lead people toward something better, rather than away from something bad. So instead of overpriced compressed carbon, how about paying for unique designs with rationally priced materials instead?
How about rings that convey some actual benefit to their bearer, like perhaps the ability to procure books and other supplies related to a child's education at no cost? Why make it a fashion statement, when you could make it something useful?
I thought part of the point is that it is conspicuous and expensive and, yeah, kinda wasteful. What better way to prove you have lots of money than by buying something expensive that depreciates dramatically in value once you buy it?
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demonstrates the man's willingness to forgo the other things he could buy with the money for a gift for her that does not directly benefit him in any way; and 3) It demonstrates to the woman's peers her husband's social standing. To play devil's advocate here: If you substitute 'ring' with 'a $3k donation to redcross' you could still potentially qualify all of th…
It doesn't qualify (3), which is a very important one. I've got a daughter. She's only 4 months old, but I've had occasion to think a bit about this. I would not want her to marry someone who wasn't willing to give her a ring? Why? Reasons (1) and (2) I mentioned, sure, but also reason (3). It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him. People who buck social conventions sometimes b…
Right, so that's a conveniently pragmatic approach to the issue.
Most of us nerds are fighting the idea of diamonds signifying social standing. The practice, and culture of giving expensive rings is objectively wacky. You're right that in your social circle taking an odd position will cost you your reputation, but consider that in the past many morally reprehensible practices were the norm and being an odd one out would cost you your reputation. If you operate on a framework so rigidly tied to social standing you might make pretty wacky decisions down the line. Ultimately, decisions made on this framework may not always be the wisest decisions.
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
(I didn't realize someone would reply. Here's my deleted post:) Are young couples foregoing the rest of the expensive ceremony along with avoiding the ring? Could the price of wedding and engagement rings be one cause of the declining marital rate in the US? What happened to the price of engagement rings over the past 10 years? How well does it mirror the prices of houses in the US?
I don't know about your last three questions, but my wife and I did forgo the expense. Our entire wedding and honeymoon, including reception decorations, food, flowers (lots of flowers...), photos, dress (with alterations), and rings cost around $3000. I don't even know how some people are capable of spending as much money as I've heard of them spending $20,000+ for a wedding? What in the world are you spending it on…
You can easily spend $3000 on just a photographer for your wedding. Which is actually many photographers' primary source of income.
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#160Walmart recently ran a survey about expected costs of engagement rings and found Americans' expectations have been changing. http://news.walmart.com/news-archive/2013/02/04/walmart-surv... (Disclaimer: I work on the tool they used to conduct the survey, which is why I know about it.)
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