If it's good enough for Priscilla Zuckerberg (née Chan) it should be good enough for anyone: A ruby engagement ring!
http://www.yourengagement101.com/files/2012/05/mark-zuckerbe...
Diamonds Are Bullshit
131–140 of 774 posts
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#132(person I know) worked for GE (General Electric) on their industrial diamond production process back in the 90's, and I got to hear lots of fun stories from this.
Diamonds that are man-made[1] are stronger (fewer imperfections) than those that are mined from the earth. Because of this, industrial diamonds tend to be man-made. (for reference, industrial diamonds when cutting hard materials, such as metals).
While working on these diamonds, GE decided to start investigating making consumer level diamonds that could be sold for jewelry. They were able to produce diamonds that would have excelled when compared to natural diamonds (when it comes to the 4 Cs). One of the fun things was they could add various gases to the manufacturing process to create diamonds of various colors. There is still a decent cost associated with producing diamonds this way, so they probably would have still been expensive, but not at the levels that De Beers was charging at the time.
At this point GE started to look into what would happen if they would have actually gone down this line, selling consumer-level diamonds. After a little investigation, the GE lawyers and upper-management decided to kill off the idea as it would not have been worth the hassle. De Beers started a small campaign that was discrediting man-made diamonds, and it would have gotten a lot worse if GE even tried to enter the market. GE decided it was not worth the hassle, and killed the consumer-level diamond project.
De Beers has created an artificial market and they are doing what they can to prevent anyone else from entering their market. Most companies don't want to deal going up against them, so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond#High_pressure...
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…
1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demonstrates the man's willingness to forgo the other things he could buy with the money for a gift for her that does not directly benefit him in any way; and 3) It demonstrates to the woman's peers her husband's social standing. To play devil's advocate here: If you substitute 'ring' with 'a $3k donation to redcross' you could still potentially qualify all of th…
It doesn't qualify (3), which is a very important one.
I've got a daughter. She's only 4 months old, but I've had occasion to think a bit about this. I would not want her to marry someone who wasn't willing to give her a ring? Why? Reasons (1) and (2) I mentioned, sure, but also reason (3). It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him. People who buck social conventions sometimes become trend-setters and are incredibly successful for it, but more often just make life harder on themselves and the people that depend on them. Do I want my daughter to be with a man that is willing to create headwinds for himself out of foolish principles and refusal to conform? All else being equal, no (although I don't have any illusions about how much of it is up to me!)
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. Karma be damned but women as a whole are swayed more by marketing then men are. They've been sold the princess wedding, the diamond ring, the brand-name clothing, etc. It's difficult to break them of this so sometimes the fight isn't worth it. I didn't pay for my wedding so that was my in-laws problem although it wasn't grandi…
> Karma be damned but women as a whole are swayed more by marketing then men are To make a claim like this, I'd normally expect data, not a bunch of anecdotes. Men I know are highly swayed by marketing as well. They want expensive cars, tools, games, alcohol, and other toys. It is hard to reason about the degree to which each is influenced solely from the products that are marketed to them. It is quite a stretch for…
Think of how men are marketed to and you'll see the difference.
It's not a name brand or a lifestyle, almost everything marketed to men has some sort of pragmatic function to it. Be it the big F-150 that can tow a ton, to the comfortable (yet fuel efficient!) 4-door sedan. Sport cars might be an exception for most men (although not for me). As much as you don't need it, a $2000 60" HDTV is still more functional than a purse that costs the same amount of money.
And now to the marketing for women. Victoria's Secret: you want to look as good as this. Coach: you want a purse that looks like you can afford it. Disney: every girl is a princess. DeBeers: it shows you he loves you. I can go on, but there's no practicality in any of it. It's even worse when the target of the ads are women but the stuff they are selling are for men, since women do a lot of purchasing in relationships. You see this a lot in 'high-end' stuff like watches and sunglasses.
It's not sexism if it's honest - just accept that men and women are wired differently otherwise you do a disservice to women.
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#135Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.
It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…
This is stressfully dehumanizing and is one of the reasons we have the term "heteronormativity."
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#136Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.
It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…
Honestly, I find the notion of "man as provider" to be perverse, but if I buy into your worldview for a moment...
1) Your wife can measure how much you can provide just as well by having you actually provide valuable things. Like a house.
2) Your wife can measure your unselfishness by having you buy something that is actually valuable to her but useless to you. Like daycations with her friends. There's no sense in buying something which is valuable to neither party.
3) The need to demonstrate your social standing to other people is the result of low self-esteem. Maybe your wife needs therapy, not a diamond.
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
But your geology teacher wasn't even correct. You can't make synthetic diamonds with similar color characteristics to natural diamonds at a fraction of the price. In fact, colorless synthetic diamonds are more expensive.
Not really true - it's relatively easy to make the diamonds colorless. Biggest difference is that the diamonds tend to have crystal structures that are a little rare in natural diamonds, since they grow very quickly compared to natural diamonds.
The price gap in natural vs cultured diamonds in the colorless range is far too narrow to make it a viable business model. So the effort, and profit, is made in the color end of the spectrum. Yellow and blue are the most popular, and the price gap is significant.
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
My sister is still mad as hell at her husband for not having spent enough for their wedding (he spent about $25k), and I've heard her once or twice complain about the ring. I'll occasionally take shots at my sister for this (because, well, she's my sister and she loves taking shots at me too so it's fair). But my God I don't dare challenge the issue of spending extravagantly on rings/weddings with another woman (I on…
A friend-of-a-friend of mine synthesized a diamond in his lab for his wife, and etched diffraction gratings on some of the lower faces to customize the frequency of reflected light (he could do arbitrary colors this way).
That's pretty cool. Does he have a writeup of the process?
Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…
Wouldn't it make more sense for her husband to take that money, and purchase a bond (or security, or something else that's guaranteed to raise in value) and put it in her name, and her name only?
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Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit
#140Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.
It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…
For a rational person there's a giant leap from the premises of "someone willing to give up money for someone else -> better" and "it follows that we should purchase diamonds from DeBeers" that you might want to call her on.
How ever did women vet men to their social circle before DeBeers came along and saved the day 80 years ago??!