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Pharo 2.0 Released

pharo-project.org

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Re: Pharo 2.0 Released

#71

Post by emaringolo »

igouy wrote: post #50
gecko wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, in my head, I implicitly also had "open-source" in that list. There are several open-source Smalltalks that have some of these things, but I believe that Pharo is the only one that does all of them. For example, GNU Smalltalk is the only other Smalltalk I know that has a decent command-line interface, but it lacks a JIT. (If I have this wrong, hopefully Paolo will correct me.) You can absolutely use Squeak t…

>> VisualWorks ... but it's not even free-as-in-beer for hobby projects anymore. Nonsense. "3. License Fees. This license is granted to you for your personal use only. Therefore, no license fees are involved, unless you breach the terms and conditions of this Agreement." http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/main/developer-community/tryi... >> Dolphin ... I'm not entirely sure I'd feel comfortable spending money on it. So d…

Dolphin is stagnated since several years. It's a beatiful piece of Software, and the best Smalltalk Dialect in terms of native Windows integration. So good integration that its low level developer (Blair McGlashan) is working at Microsoft since several years ago.

Re: Pharo 2.0 Released

#72

Post by dh83 »

worldhell129 wrote: post #67
sigzero wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really now? You just wanted to spit your hated out? And this was constructive to the topic? Why not just, move along and not post?

Yup, I just wanted to spit my hate out because of the countless number of hours I've wasted using pharo and smalltalk in general. The images feel extremely fragile, the whole environment feels slow. Just scrolling in pharo eats up my cpu. Smalltalk may be an okay language (but extremely terrible to have to be mandatory for an advanced algorithms class), but pharo in my opinion isn't very good and just plain annoying.…

thats why I still program in text files and use gdb for debugging. They are fast and reliable, that's what you need for algorithms anyway. And who cares about abstractions.

Re: Pharo 2.0 Released

#73

Post by teapot7 »

callinyouin wrote: post #56

As someone with essentially no experience with Smalltalk, let me offer some criticism. (It's constructive criticism, I promise :) I'm a CS student taking a programming languages course, and for our term project we need to learn a new programming language, write a small project in the language and write a paper on its implementation, features, strengths, weaknesses, etc. After reading about an awful lot of languages,…

Sometimes complaining does some good. From the Pharo mailing list, directly addressing your comment:

"yep, I'm already addressing some of the good observations this guy made. In particular, I'm a long time enemy of the one-click images, so I'm killing them (and replacing it for more suitable platform specific builds)." ... "The new scripts produces structures that can fit better into the platforms where they will run.

You can check them here: http://files.pharo.org/platform/

Maybe have another go?

Re: Pharo 2.0 Released

#74

Post by skrishnamachari »

eruditely wrote: post #69
worldhell129 wrote: post #49

I'm sorry, I've been turned off of pharo and smalltalk completely. Mostly due to the fact that I had it forced upon me for my Advanced Algorithms class. I don't like pharo, and I don't like smalltalk

This says more about you than anything else.

I would lend a little credence to his statement.

As someone in a corporate setup, used Pharo since three years as the introductory environment, I realize the pain he feels. It was really brittle for a newbie, it took a while for newbie's work with crashes, recovering code, red boxes with a cross over it, lack of decent FS access, lack of access to code snippets they could simply copy paste and feel good about having some working stuff. There are operations it was slow in..

I then focussed on principles of programming, OOPs, showed them the beauty inside Pharo, feel of the debugger, ironed out the issues they faced with stuff they should not do, how to quickly recover lost code etc..

Showed some cooler stuff like tablet like interface, new IDE interface for code browsing/ writing, interactive UI creation as quick hacked code in a day... that they experienced the difference from Java / C / C++.

Showed Groovy as the Smalltalking Java.. and why its even more cool in Pharo if they bite in deeper.

Even for algorithms, they picked up greater ability than they had in C, but despite it all, there is still peer pressure, some rough edges Pharo will probably take the year ahead to iron out. Then we can stem critical reviews of this kind naturally.

"Pharo-Smalltalk" is a nice, comforting IDE, platform and a language and should be as inviting, easy and natural language to everyone, which is the target the Pharo Team has in my opinion leaped over to since 2009 in great measure. More power to the team to do better in the year ahead.

I will try to do my bit in this year certainly to bring in the past years effort, refactored as required.

Love to see if we get the tide rising by next year, for hordes of converts and new developers.

Re: Pharo 2.0 Released

#75

Post by worldhell129 »

dh83 wrote: post #72
worldhell129 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I just wanted to spit my hate out because of the countless number of hours I've wasted using pharo and smalltalk in general. The images feel extremely fragile, the whole environment feels slow. Just scrolling in pharo eats up my cpu. Smalltalk may be an okay language (but extremely terrible to have to be mandatory for an advanced algorithms class), but pharo in my opinion isn't very good and just plain annoying.…

thats why I still program in text files and use gdb for debugging. They are fast and reliable, that's what you need for algorithms anyway. And who cares about abstractions.

I like your style

Re: Pharo 2.0 Released

#76

Post by worldhell129 »

nextputall wrote: post #70
worldhell129 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I just wanted to spit my hate out because of the countless number of hours I've wasted using pharo and smalltalk in general. The images feel extremely fragile, the whole environment feels slow. Just scrolling in pharo eats up my cpu. Smalltalk may be an okay language (but extremely terrible to have to be mandatory for an advanced algorithms class), but pharo in my opinion isn't very good and just plain annoying.…

Have you ever used eclipse or netbeans? Those feels an order of magnitude slower than pharo. I consider pharo a small and fast environment compared to other "IDEs".

The point is I have a choice. I can choose to edit TEXT files in netbeans or eclipse, I can choose to edit them in vim or emacs. Using pharo and smalltalk I'm not even given a choice the environment is forced upon me and I have to use their specific environment.

Re: Pharo 2.0 Released

#77

Post by nextputall »

worldhell129 wrote: post #76
nextputall wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever used eclipse or netbeans? Those feels an order of magnitude slower than pharo. I consider pharo a small and fast environment compared to other "IDEs".

The point is I have a choice. I can choose to edit TEXT files in netbeans or eclipse, I can choose to edit them in vim or emacs. Using pharo and smalltalk I'm not even given a choice the environment is forced upon me and I have to use their specific environment.

You can use emacs, if you have a perversion like this. http://dmitrymatveev.co.uk/shampoo/
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