It's interesting that the PISA scores are always used to declare that the school system of X is vastly superior to Y, (usually some other country in comparison to America), a conclusion that ignores the fact that test scores are affected by variables other than the educational system of a country. If you correct for ethnic background, America holds up very well. Asian-Americans (including Asian-Americans from develop…
What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success
51–60 of 69 posts
Re: What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Can we talk about poverty? In many communities in America schools are the only places students can get something to eat." I've worked with inner city youths, and that is completely false. If that were true, we'd expect a very skinny poor population. Instead, a large percentage of America's poor are overweight.
A large percentage of the poor are overweight or obese because of the low nutritional value of cheap, readymade food.
[NB Genuinely interested - not being snarky]
Re: What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
This just underscores the headline statement of the article though, wouldn't you say? If e.g. US education policy were strongly focused on equity, chances are that those immigrants wouldn't score lower than the average. And since powerful groups would still want their children to score well, chances are that the system would change in a way that pulls everybody up rather than pushing anybody down. From the other pers…
Ethnic issues aside, I think the OP's most important point is that schools are not the only thing that goes into education. Their family, community and friends might even be more important. Imagine you took a school performing in the top 5% academically and swap the students with a school performing in the bottom 5%. Which do you think will perform better? Universities ares someplace where this is widely accepted. Go…
Re: What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success
#54Okay, pick a measure. Might pick accuracy with a bow and arrow, skill at adding a column of numbers, ability to memorize a passage of music, distance on a broad jump -- you get it, essentially anything.
Now apply the measure to each of the people, and for each partition get an average for the measures of the people in that partition.
Now rank the partitions on the averages. Typically will have no ties -- assume no ties. So, there is no ambiguity in the ranking.
Note: Likely picking a different measure will result in a different ranking.
Now pick one more box, A, and move some people from the partitions into box A from some of the other boxes, and get the score of the people in box A.
So, here we have an experiment with any people with any partitions with any measure and have said nothing, zip, zilch, zero, about ethnicity, race, income, parent's education, school systems, teachers unions, school budgets, etc.
Claim: Essentially always, the score of box A will be significantly lower than the score of the best partition and significantly higher than the score of the worst partition. That is, the score of box A will be, in the word of the OP, 'middling'.
So, just this little thought experiment is enough to explain the fact that the US is not either the best or the worst in the world on the PISA tests.
But, if in each partition the people are homogeneous, then typically the result will be the same except the difference between partition at the top of the ranking and the bottom of the ranking will be larger. Net, both the top and the bottom of the rankings will have homogeneous populations, and the diverse partition A will be middling.
For more, if want to compare the school, home life, etc. of Finland what those aspects of the US, then compare PISA scores of students in Finland, native to Finland, with the PISA scores of US students of recent, native Finnish descent.
Of course, there was
"McKinsey's report, The Economic Impact of the Achievement Gap in America's Schools"
of 2009. The URLs of the PDFs are no longer live.
There in the "supporting materials" on page 24 is a bar graph of
"PISA Science Literacy Scale for 15-year-old students, 2006"
with
Finland 563
Hong Kong 542
Canada 534
Japan 531
Australia 527
US whites 523
...
US average 489
...
Greece 473
Israel 454
US Latinos 439
Now, how can Israel be so low?Exercise for the reader!
Re: What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success
#55"Instead, the public school system's teachers are trained to assess children in classrooms using independent tests they create themselves. All children receive a report card at the end of each semester, but these reports are based on individualized grading by each teacher. Periodically, the Ministry of Education tracks national progress by testing a few sample groups across a range of different schools." Children are…
"Teachers are trained to assess children in classrooms using independent tests they create themselves." So, they do testing. They probably test more often than standardized testing.
Re: What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success
#56"Instead, the public school system's teachers are trained to assess children in classrooms using independent tests they create themselves. All children receive a report card at the end of each semester, but these reports are based on individualized grading by each teacher. Periodically, the Ministry of Education tracks national progress by testing a few sample groups across a range of different schools." Children are…
"Teachers are trained to assess children in classrooms using independent tests they create themselves." So, they do testing. They probably test more often than standardized testing.
Standardised testing tends to be summative, if the teacher is setting his or her own tests then then I would assuming the assessment would be more formative.
Re: What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success
#57It's interesting that the PISA scores are always used to declare that the school system of X is vastly superior to Y, (usually some other country in comparison to America), a conclusion that ignores the fact that test scores are affected by variables other than the educational system of a country. If you correct for ethnic background, America holds up very well. Asian-Americans (including Asian-Americans from develop…
This just underscores the headline statement of the article though, wouldn't you say? If e.g. US education policy were strongly focused on equity, chances are that those immigrants wouldn't score lower than the average. And since powerful groups would still want their children to score well, chances are that the system would change in a way that pulls everybody up rather than pushing anybody down. From the other pers…
Re: What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success
#58Can we talk about poverty? In many communities in America schools are the only places students can get something to eat. We know that academic performance correlates closely with the economic conditions parents. So why don't we talk about it more? Schools are in many ways just reflections of a society and its values. Schools don't exist in a vacuum, so comparing American schools to Finnish schools can not be done as…
No, we can't talk about poverty. That requires critically examining the American fetishes for proprietarian, neoliberal capitalism and the inequality it drives. In fact, the problem is even deeper: it requires Americans to critically examine the cultural assumption that Life Itself is a competitive game to win or lose as individually as possible.
Anyways, we'll just have to wait and see whether co-operation is more effective than competition. For now, it seems like competition is winning, but the question is at what price.
Re: What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success
#59A very interesting read on the subject of equality and competition in education is Lorenzo Milani students' book 'Lettera a una professoressa' (Letter to a Teacher) [1]. Milani was a catholic priest that was deemed a bit too radical by the church establishment and was sent in a tiny rural community as a teacher so that he would stay away from the workers in large cities. There he developed a full time school, where o…
"The statistical and economical analysis was performed by his students as a research project." That is the way to do it, thanks for this reference. Paulo Freire has had a similar influence in adult teaching. One quick quote from the PDF... " I'd have you paid by piecework. So much for each child who learns one subject. Or,even better, a fine for each child who does not learn a subject. Then your eyes would always be…
An educator I know likes to say that's not the really worst students you should spend your energies on, but the ones just a little better, that's where the best return on investment is, according to him.
Re: What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success
#60Can we talk about poverty? In many communities in America schools are the only places students can get something to eat. We know that academic performance correlates closely with the economic conditions parents. So why don't we talk about it more? Schools are in many ways just reflections of a society and its values. Schools don't exist in a vacuum, so comparing American schools to Finnish schools can not be done as…
"Can we talk about poverty? In many communities in America schools are the only places students can get something to eat." I've worked with inner city youths, and that is completely false. If that were true, we'd expect a very skinny poor population. Instead, a large percentage of America's poor are overweight.