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Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

eevblog.com

21–30 of 196 posts

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#21
post #8

How do people find hacks like this? Looking at the board, that resistor is one among tons of components.

He actually describes it in the thread, a little farther down:

"No, no schematic, what I did was look for resistors that looked like they had an alternative position, have a look at the photos and you will see what I mean. Any that I suspected of being a strap I used a meter to check if the resistor was connected to ground of 3.3V directly, and looked where the general traces were going in the area. If they went towards the GPU and connected to one of the rails it was a pretty good bet that it was a hard strap."

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/hacking-nvidia-cards-i...

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#22
post #6
post #5

I don't entirely know how I feel about this hack. I feel like this is really similar to unlocking the "Professional" version of a piece of software with a serial key generator. Although, I understand hardware is dramatically different than software, it's using the same principal -- the same reusable bits to assemble many different products, and then just using tools to mask features unless a user pays for them. Then…

I think that if I own a piece of hardware, I am the sole owner of every single chip and screw on it, including every hardware hack that it may have. On the other side, usually you don't own the software but only a license that grants you permission to use it.

Binning is good for everyone, so it seems kind of short-sighted to try to tear it down.

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#23
The corresponding reddit thread is quite insightful:

"It is far cheaper to make one very good chip for the highest market, and modify it slightly for lower end markets...

Now, this is the part you hate: this is the only viable alternative. There's no point demanding different designs for different market segments as that would significantly increase the cost you, the consumer, pays. You can demand chips be sold at lowest prices without being fused down, but then the company eats its own market, becomes unprofitable, and goes out of business at worst - or, at best, doesn't make enough money to fund further r&d as much as they want, which again hurts you, the consumer."

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1aj3n3/not_coo...

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#24
post #5

I don't entirely know how I feel about this hack. I feel like this is really similar to unlocking the "Professional" version of a piece of software with a serial key generator. Although, I understand hardware is dramatically different than software, it's using the same principal -- the same reusable bits to assemble many different products, and then just using tools to mask features unless a user pays for them. Then…

It feels similar to unlocking software because despite the different legal structure (ownership vs. license), the source of the difference similar, as you point out: You have been given a purposefully broken (i.e. effort was expended to reduce its usefulness) product.

One would be tempted to make the argument of costing the company sale of an otherwise higher priced product, the method of fixing this would involve having entirely separate design and/or fabrication for the two tiers of components. This is far costlier than the price gap afforded to a handful of technical and risk-taking customers. Unless the ease of the transition is reduced to "Flip the big red switch from 'Fast' to 'Faster'!" then this sort of missed sale amounts to a rounding error for Nvidia, and certainly does not even match the cost that would be necessary to protect against it.

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#25
post #23

The corresponding reddit thread is quite insightful: "It is far cheaper to make one very good chip for the highest market, and modify it slightly for lower end markets... Now, this is the part you hate: this is the only viable alternative. There's no point demanding different designs for different market segments as that would significantly increase the cost you, the consumer, pays. You can demand chips be sold at lo…

Exactly, binning is good for the business AND for the consumer.

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#27
Keep in mind that one of the finer points of making money in the semiconductor industry is yield management, especially when you're cutting larger dies.

These days you don't just toss a chip when it fails a test - you design the tests to exercise different physical regions of the chip to identify the location of a defect. You also design the chip in a way that allows you to power down different regions and behave like a lower priced part.

So a defective quad-core CPU might be sold as a dual-core part, or as a variant with a smaller cache. You have slightly finer grain control on a GPU, and very fine grain control on RAM or flash.

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#28
post #5

I don't entirely know how I feel about this hack. I feel like this is really similar to unlocking the "Professional" version of a piece of software with a serial key generator. Although, I understand hardware is dramatically different than software, it's using the same principal -- the same reusable bits to assemble many different products, and then just using tools to mask features unless a user pays for them. Then…

Sargun, your point was, I think, why is it that we treat software modding differently than we treat hardware modding?

The chorus of "The hardware is hardware, and we can do whatever we want!" misses the point.

It is a good point sargun. One I wish I had an answer for.

Perhaps one explanation lies in the fact that some level of risk and skill and ingenuity and research is required to actually mod hardware. So we feel like the hardware modders deserve the fruits. But at we feel like the software "modders" don't, because most of them are thoughtlessly running some riskless script devised by someone else.

I am not saying this should be our attitude. I am just saying I too have the knee-jerk reaction "the hardware is the hardware" but am far less certain when it comes to software. And I don't really understand why.

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#29
post #5

I don't entirely know how I feel about this hack. I feel like this is really similar to unlocking the "Professional" version of a piece of software with a serial key generator. Although, I understand hardware is dramatically different than software, it's using the same principal -- the same reusable bits to assemble many different products, and then just using tools to mask features unless a user pays for them. Then…

It's not about principles, it's about economics.

This is a matter of price discrimination. Nvidia wants to be sure they have a chance to sell their gear to every single person who has money to spend on graphics cards at a range of price points.

Consumers have smaller wallets than professionals, but both have similar needs. So the company performs a "hack" that allows them to extract maximum revenues from each segment.

Let's take this to an absurd extreme. Sennheiser did this by crippling their low-end headphones with a piece of foam to limit audio quality. Savvy audiophiles simply popped open the cans and removed the foam. No quibble with that, right?

For me, companies have every right to practice price discrimination by fiddling with their hardware. And I think consumers have every right to mod that hardware. A few tinkerers are unlikely to break a meticulous price discrimination model like Nvidia's, and I think it's probably a net win for the company to have a chunk of their userbase who love them so much all they want to do is tinker in this way.

Re: Resistor hack turns a Nvidia GTX690 into a Quadro K5000 or Tesla K10

#30
post #20

It's possible Nvidia manufactures the higher-end cards and then, if they fail the high-end testing but pass low-end testing, are marked as the lower-end card. There is precedent for this in many areas of computer hardware (CPU, RAM, hard drives). I would be wary of undoing this and expecting any level of reliability.

That is a good point. Something I really wouldn't have even thought of before even though I knew about the hard drives part.

In the post he says: "the GTX 690 and the Quadro K5000 (same GPU) and, get this... the K5000 is only single GPU and clocked some 25-30% slower then the gaming card, what a joke"

so wouldn't it be downgrading the card to make it usable on linux? maybe not idk much about linux, drivers, hardware etc.

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