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“The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

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Re: “The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

#161

Post by mindslight »

smsm42 wrote: post #99
tomp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't intend to harm AT&T; they discussed selling the URLs or shorting the stock, that would amount to harm, but they didn't do it in the end, so his intent is pretty obvious. If I was dealing with such dickheads as the AT&T and the US prosecutors, my "last" wish would be to harm them more, too. Edit: typo, changed "with" into "wish" in the last paragraph.

Shorting stock doesn't harm AT&T, it harms the shareholders. >>>> If I was dealing with such dickheads as the AT&T and the US prosecutors, my "last" wish would be to harm them more, too. Then you'd be no smarter than Auernheimer, and I sincerely hope you don't behave as stupidly as he did, or you inevitably would land in jail too. It usually doesn't go well for people that try to harm others and publicly admit it. At…

> It usually doesn't go well for people that try to harm others and publicly admit it

If you're a federal persecutor, it usually goes very well.

Re: “The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

#162

Post by lifeisstillgood »

smsm42 wrote: post #35
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are supposed to prosecute, convict and sentence on the facts of the case, not the likeability of the defendant

You must be very new on this Earth if you think it actually doesn't matter who the defendant is and how he behaves. Motives matter, so does evaluation of the probability that the crime will be repeated in the future. weev did everything to show he intended to harm AT&T and his only regret is that he didn't harm them more. That's not exactly a way to get lenient sentence.

Lenient no.

Prosecuted and convicted at all? Whilst I recognise there is a lot of backstory here and a lot of anti weev feeling if the case is as simple as AT&T kept private records behind the worst security imaginable - the equivalent of putting a unlocked filing cabinet on the street and moaning people rifled through it - then his criminality should be IMO the equivalent of someone who we t through that filing cabinet and took the files to a journo to show how crap their security was

If there is something else to it (as opposed to him or he is repeatedly trying to get AT&T) then I would of course like to knwo

Re: “The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

#163

Post by lifeisstillgood »

rayiner wrote: post #125

It should be noted that he was convicted on two counts: conspiracy to access a computer system without authorization, and fraud in connection with personal information. The way the CFAA works is that it's a misdemeanor unless the illegal access is pursuant to some other crime, which bumps it up to a felony. Had weev simply stumbled upon AT&T's security flaw and reported it AT&T, the worst they could have gone after h…

Bruce Schneier walks past the AT&T building and sees a Shop front called customer services. There on the sidewalk is a filing cabinet labelled "your records". Instructions on the cabinet say please open the drawer and read your own personal records. Do not read anyone else's.

Bruce looks at his, then checks that he can look at some others - he collects 100 examples and angered by this he takes those examples and posts them on his blog as proof of a major security failing so bad it's embarrassing

Now weev it seems is an Unpleasent person who has been looking for ways to attack AT&T. - but is the strawman argument above an accurate analogy to the facts of the case?

If so I really don't see what his motives or personality have to do with anything other than his sentencing. It's the prosecution and conviction that seem wrong afaik

Re: “The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

#164

Post by rayiner »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #163
rayiner wrote: post #125

It should be noted that he was convicted on two counts: conspiracy to access a computer system without authorization, and fraud in connection with personal information. The way the CFAA works is that it's a misdemeanor unless the illegal access is pursuant to some other crime, which bumps it up to a felony. Had weev simply stumbled upon AT&T's security flaw and reported it AT&T, the worst they could have gone after h…

Bruce Schneier walks past the AT&T building and sees a Shop front called customer services. There on the sidewalk is a filing cabinet labelled "your records". Instructions on the cabinet say please open the drawer and read your own personal records. Do not read anyone else's. Bruce looks at his, then checks that he can look at some others - he collects 100 examples and angered by this he takes those examples and post…

Change "100" to "tens of thousands" and "posts them on his blog" "suggests to someone else that he was going to sell them for profit" and you've got a damn good analogy.

Re: “The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

#165

Post by matthewnolandev »

sneak wrote: post #153
matthewnolandev wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technological ignorance from the law makers and the judicial system is in part why that law exists and why Weev is locked up. It's funny to hear them butcher technical words and to see the word "Goatse" on CNN. ..But I've stopped laughing. It's time that technologists step up efforts to change things in the favor of communication and free speech.

I put $50k on the line to bail him out and talked him out of aaronsw'ing himself several times during the last few years while this nightmare progressed. I must've missed you at the sentencing this morning. I was the hungover one in the mirrorshades.

i know you did. More people should stand up like you did.I think if Aaron had a better support network, he'd still be around.

If you're still on this side of the pond, we should grab a drink.

Re: “The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

#166

Post by smsm42 »

DanBC wrote: post #149
smsm42 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it prevented him from going to jail, but I'm sure if he'd behave responsibly there would be no way he'd get 3 years. But then he'd not be him, and the whole matter would be different. The whole point here is that he is him, and if he'd get a slap on the wrist he'd probably just decide he's invincible and nobody could harm him and proceed to do more harmful things with a full sense of impunity.

There are some things he deserves serious punishment for. Some of the things he has done have affected other people directly. So why do those behaviours escape punishment, while this thing gets a prison sentence?

Because our world is imperfect and justice not always finds the guilty. In this case, his karma finally caught up with him. He was guilty, he behaved like an ass and he got 3.5 years, even though if he didn't he probably would get much less. I can see EFFs point that 3.5 years is too much too, though I personally feel very little sympathy to Auernheimer. If he wises up, he'd be out in less than 2 years probably, if he doesn't, well...

Re: “The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

#167

Post by smsm42 »

josh2600 wrote: post #148
rayiner wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Possessing email addresses should not be a crime. Collecting lists of e-mail addresses from private databases without authorization should be. > Identity fraud for a list of emails? Really? Weev said in IRC conversations that he was going to sell the e-mail lists. Maybe you don't believe him, but it's hard to argue that no reasonable person could have believed that he was going to do what he said he might do. > Fur…

Is there not some level of basic accountability? I mean, shouldn't AT&T face penalties for hosting consumer data in such an egregiously unsafe fashion? While I think the responsible disclosure could've happened in a better way, I don't think this is akin to walking into an unlocked house. This is a web server that's only protection was prayer. There was no authentication, no verification and no accountability. What m…

It's a public issue, so any client who thinks AT&T sucks can go to one of the other providers. What you want, put people that write bad code to jail? You'd need pretty roomy jails then. May as well jail everybody who ever wrote any code at all - some of it most probably is bad.

Re: “The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

#168

Post by cgag »

danielweber wrote: post #141
matthewnolandev wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those emails we're exposed to the public. Weev's security company exposed "gaping holes". AT&T are at fault for exposing their customers information in the first place. Anybody COULD have done harm with those emails. He didn't. He used them as a fodder for public discussion about internet security. AT&T should owe him a "thank you". AT&T customers owe AT&T a boycott for being irresponsible with their information.

Finding a security hole is not a get-out-of-jail-free card. I think the question of AT&T having responsibility for inadequate controls is very interesting. I would like to see AT&T face some repercussions for it. Not _instead of_ weev receiving punishment, but _in addition to_.

Punishment for what?

Re: “The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

#169

Post by lifeisstillgood »

rayiner wrote: post #164
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bruce Schneier walks past the AT&T building and sees a Shop front called customer services. There on the sidewalk is a filing cabinet labelled "your records". Instructions on the cabinet say please open the drawer and read your own personal records. Do not read anyone else's. Bruce looks at his, then checks that he can look at some others - he collects 100 examples and angered by this he takes those examples and post…

Change "100" to "tens of thousands" and "posts them on his blog" "suggests to someone else that he was going to sell them for profit" and you've got a damn good analogy.

And why are either of those crimes?

Re: “The AT&T Hacker” Sentenced To 41 Months In Prison

#170

Post by sneak »

matthewnolandev wrote: post #165
sneak wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I put $50k on the line to bail him out and talked him out of aaronsw'ing himself several times during the last few years while this nightmare progressed. I must've missed you at the sentencing this morning. I was the hungover one in the mirrorshades.

i know you did. More people should stand up like you did.I think if Aaron had a better support network, he'd still be around. If you're still on this side of the pond, we should grab a drink.

Oh, I didn't read your username until just now.
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