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Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

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Re: Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

#141

Post by podperson »

logn wrote: post #139
raganwald wrote: post #97

This seems to be implemented in a single programming language without any dependencies on legacy systems. A truly enterprise-grade system talks to PL/SQL stored procedures. Or it would, if the DBAs had written the stored procedures. But they haven't responded to your ticket request yet. And when they do, it will be with a mostly irrelevant question delaying actual work for another week. by which time their manager wi…

Also it would be nice to configure the strategies with XML. Plus it would be super helpful to have jar plugins for new strategies. And seriously, there's no SOAP interface? This is hardly usable then. Also how the heck am I supposed to build this without Ant and batch and shell scripts to call Ant? Plus once you get ant files you can integrate it with Hudson. And package this as an EAR and add some user authenticatio…

If it were truly Enterprise worthy it wouldn't be in github, but im perforce or, better yet, ClearCase.

Re: Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

#142

Post by kibwen »

SatvikBeri wrote: post #66
leothekim wrote: post #40

Wow. There were pull requests that were accepted to this project: https://github.com/Mikkeren/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition/pulls?... The potential for more funny is great here.

My favorite: Change "One-liners lead to unclear code that has too much responsibility crammed into too little space. It's better to do less per line and keep the code readable. This changes the very complex and ambiguous operation <= into two separate, easily understood operations < and ==."

Last week my colleagues and I realized that the official, Zend-provided, XML-based communication system that allows our PHP middle-end to talk to our RPG-based backend doesn't allow you to return any character string that includes a less-than symbol.

One of our routines returns a SQL string.

Sometimes SQL strings contain less-than symbols.

After much handwringing and an official bugfix that fixed nothing whatsoever, we decided on the next-best solution: all instances of `where foo bar`. I shit you not, that is a not-greater-than operator.

http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/dzichelp/v2r2/index.jsp?to...

I may sound frustrated, but I'm not. We all had a good laugh at the workaround and got back to work. This sort of thing is sometimes known as "job security".

Re: Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

#143

Post by kyllo »

steveklabnik wrote: post #140
jlgreco wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, Perforce is too pleasant if we are really embracing enterprise; makes it too easy to do sensible things like use a git client. No, it has got to be SVN for maximum pain.

If you think SVN is 'maximum pain' then you haven't tried out the full array of actually bad VCSes. SVN is fine, if a little outdated-feeling.

Three words: Microsoft Visual SourceSafe.

Re: Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

#144

Post by haakon »

pekk wrote: post #86
MattRogish wrote: post #42

I've often wondered - is it the language that spawns this or the mindset of the developer (or both?) I see this primarily in Java or .NET shops - massive layer upon layer, code generation, factories, classes, etc. - when a simple architecture would be best. Why do we get these insane things to begin with? What's going on? It feels sort of like premature scaling (what if we have millions of programmers - we need more…

Dynamic typing is much maligned these days, but it allows you to abstract without nearly so much boilerplate.

Boilerplate is not an inherent feature of static typing - just look at Haskell or Scala.

Re: Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

#145

Post by reinhardt »

Goopplesoft wrote: post #96
daeken wrote: post #56

I had a bunch of fun coming up with terrible ways to write FizzBuzz a little while back. My favorites, in Python https://gist.github.com/daeken/1e3c680c20da98c680c4 and C https://gist.github.com/daeken/15769d83b66974335f78

That python code made me cringe. decorators, parsing, compiling and evals? You win.

No metaclasses or descriptors though, still needs some work.

Re: Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

#146

Post by kyllo »

metaphorm wrote: post #125
recursive wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statically typed programs are longer because they contain more information.

they don't contain more information. they contain more explicit declarations of that information. dynamically typed languages leave that information hidden because it is inferrable (or irrelevant).

>dynamically typed languages leave that information hidden because it is inferrable (or irrelevant).

So do good, high-level statically typed languages, i.e. the kind with type inference. Like Scala or ML.

Re: Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

#147

Post by sbmassey »

kibwen wrote: post #142
SatvikBeri wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite: Change "One-liners lead to unclear code that has too much responsibility crammed into too little space. It's better to do less per line and keep the code readable. This changes the very complex and ambiguous operation <= into two separate, easily understood operations < and ==."

Last week my colleagues and I realized that the official, Zend-provided, XML-based communication system that allows our PHP middle-end to talk to our RPG-based backend doesn't allow you to return any character string that includes a less-than symbol. One of our routines returns a SQL string. Sometimes SQL strings contain less-than symbols. After much handwringing and an official bugfix that fixed nothing whatsoever,…

why not just use 'where bar > foo'?

Re: Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

#148

Post by BSousa »

WayneDB wrote: post #113
redblacktree wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really taking this personally, aren't you?

No. I honestly want to see some of this great code that I keep hearing about. It's just hilarious to me when people think their shit doesn't stink and so I rub their faces in it. Have you seen the code for Node.js? It's fucking disgusting. Yet everybody around here can't get enough of it. Seriously...I'd love to see how some of these developers would deal with enterprise requirements. I think the problem is that they…

It's quite common in these parts to be honest to piss on .net/Java 'enterprise' code.

Many of the folks here haven't seen what kind of systems banks and other big companies work with, so they have this little start-uppy world view with tests and orm's and the like, where vulnerabilities in their software are touted as 'the price to pay for being agile', so it is very hard for them to understand some of the practises in big companies. Now sure, I've seen some bad code in there as well, but I also seen a lot of bad code in Rails projects (heck, before the idea of fat model skinny controller, most of rails programmers had controllers the size of the moon, then cam fm-sc and now models are enormous, but in rails 4 we will have concerns which I'm sure will result in same clusterfuck, and the interesting thing is, before fm-sc, rails folks said 'yeah, controllers are supposed to be like that', then with fm-sc 'no no, it's like this now', and now we get to concerns and will be the hot topic, and they keep rewriting and rewriting and touting how .net/java devs don't know what they are doing, while these devs have code in production and still in development for decades (well, java at least) in systems they can't even imagine the complexity.

tl,dr: stop assuming .net/java devs are shit and you are the best for using rails or python, chances are, you suck as much as them.

Re: Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

#149

Post by jlgreco »

steveklabnik wrote: post #140
jlgreco wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, Perforce is too pleasant if we are really embracing enterprise; makes it too easy to do sensible things like use a git client. No, it has got to be SVN for maximum pain.

If you think SVN is 'maximum pain' then you haven't tried out the full array of actually bad VCSes. SVN is fine, if a little outdated-feeling.

Besides the "modern" VCS's, I've used SVN, CVS, Perforce, and done both manual patch management and patch management with Quilt. I am sure there are some VCSes out there I would hate more than SVN if I used them, SourceSafe I'm sure, but I would honestly use any of those others I just listed before SVN again. Yes, I consider SVN to be a devolution of CVS.

Re: Fizz Buzz: Enterprise Edition

#150

Post by ttrreeww »

kyllo wrote: post #143
steveklabnik wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think SVN is 'maximum pain' then you haven't tried out the full array of actually bad VCSes. SVN is fine, if a little outdated-feeling.

Three words: Microsoft Visual SourceSafe.

Rational from IBM!
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