Thanks for finding this tokenadult. I've been trying to convince my wife (who has a degree in dietetics and a minor in anthropology/archeology) to write about this subject for a while, but food and diet are such visceral topics for people that she finds discussions of the topics incredibly frustrating. Food, language, gender norms, these are all fields of study where there is substantial research and a lot of resolut…
It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream
11–20 of 205 posts
Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream
#12From my few conversations on the matter, the thing that's jumped out at me is this:
She's drawn to alternative medicine because it's open source. Like many nerds, she hates closed proprietary systems and loathes bureaucracy.
If alt-med worked, it would be vastly superior to conventional "industrial" medicine. The latter is bureaucratic, run by closed guilds, closed source, and radiates this standoffish "you are an idiot, do not ask questions" mentality.
By contrast alt-med is open. Anyone can learn about it. Anyone can become a practitioner. Anyone can experiment. It's tolerant of differences of opinion to a much greater extent than conventional medicine. It comes off as welcoming, inviting, and engaging.
Of course, I understand some of the reasons medicine is the way it is. Unlike hacking code on a computer, screwing up medicine can really hurt people. (Code on a computer generally can't, unless you're talking about certain kinds of specialized areas.) But it does seem to me that this is part of the appeal of alt-med.
The other appeal, I think, is escape from the bureaucratic hell that is conventional medicine. Alt-med is actually more free-enterprise. There is more patient choice. It's less expensive. My wife and I just had a baby, and dealing with the insurance company has been a living hell.
Edit: one more observation.
We've tried a little bit of alt-med type stuff to varying degrees of success. I think I can also say this, and I think it goes a long way to explaining alt-med's popularity.
The bedside manner you get with "alternative" practitioners is vastly better. I mean huge orders of magnitude better.
We have a pretty good doctor and a pretty good hospital, and even then we occasionally feel like meat. And ours is really above average in terms of doctor-patient relations and comfort. I've heard some real slaughterhouse horror stories, particularly around women giving birth in ordinary hospitals. I have a relative who has such a story. She really felt like a piece of beef, and the doctor was a real jerk.
The physical design of the spaces is better too. Go into an alt-med clinic and it feels warm, welcoming, calming. Go into a hospital or a conventional doctors' office and it looks like a car repair shop. Again -- to draw an analogy to the computer industry -- Apple has proven just how much aesthetics matter. Apple's products are generally not technically superior, but they are often vastly superior aesthetically and in terms of usability.
Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream
#13Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream
#14Thanks for finding this tokenadult. I've been trying to convince my wife (who has a degree in dietetics and a minor in anthropology/archeology) to write about this subject for a while, but food and diet are such visceral topics for people that she finds discussions of the topics incredibly frustrating. Food, language, gender norms, these are all fields of study where there is substantial research and a lot of resolut…
Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream
#15Dietdoctor.com <= Great source (and the guy is actually a real doctor).
Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream
#16Calling the "naturalistic fallacy" a fallacy is a bit of an overstretch IMO, sure natural=better is not a rule true 100% of the time, but nevertheless until sufficient evidence has not been accumulated that some of the adjustments we make to our lifestyle are not harmful to us health-wise avoiding them is not an unreasonable heuristic to follow. One example is how it became clear in the last years in nutritional scie…
The things that concern me about herbalism are simple:
1. The compounds in herbs are not tested as rigorously as "modern" drugs, at least by the FDA in the US. Knowledge of side effects and safe dosage is more limited.
2. Herbs are often subject to variation in dosages from pill to pill, because the source plant matter is variable and the actual yields are difficult to determine.
It's not about ignoring thousands of years of experimentation, it's just that our standards are higher, and the old experiments were poorly conducted. We want to know the side effects and the interactions. We want to know the drug's mechanism. We want to know about the possible complications. We want to know the effective dose and the unsafe dose. And we want to be able to isolate things: herbs contain many chemicals: you might want one of the chemicals, but not want the side effects from one of the other chemicals.
It reminds me of the almond extract you can buy at the store. The natural almond extract tastes the same as artificial almond extract, but the natural almond extract contains more cyanide. People pay a premium for things labeled "natural".
The heuristic to use natural things works well for foods, but it's a harmful heuristic when considering drugs. It's also a bad heuristic for heating your home (wood fires), immunizing your children (let them die from whooping cough), family planning (pull out), et cetera.
Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
See, that's just fine! It's awesome that you've found a diet that makes you feel better. But here's the thing. You can't double blind yourself. That's the whole issue with blind trials. Double blind trials require that you do not and can not determine whether you are in the treatment group or not. Additionally, unless you're having an unrelated person prepare the food, w/o any knowledge of which foods are in the "pal…
I removed that. I figured that I would get some flak. :P I did have my roommate prepare the food. Another one of my roommates swapped/labeled the food and then went to class, no interaction. It was mostly because he didn't believe that I could feel it and that it was mostly in my head. (which I totally understand, I was pretty worried about that as well) We switched out white flour for some almond flour. We also did…
On the other hand, if a diet helps, and provocations after, say, a month (but without your knowledge) make things go downhill fast, you can be sure enough. Welcome to the wonderful life where you get to check yoghurt for trace amounts of wheat products, and pizza is a holy grail (one of my closest friends is coeliac, for people in Amsterdam area, Woodstone in Haarlem makes good gluten-free pizza).
Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream
#18"undergird" .. !?
"to form the basis or foundation of : strengthen, support <facts and statistics subtly undergird his commentary"
Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream
#19Calling the "naturalistic fallacy" a fallacy is a bit of an overstretch IMO, sure natural=better is not a rule true 100% of the time, but nevertheless until sufficient evidence has not been accumulated that some of the adjustments we make to our lifestyle are not harmful to us health-wise avoiding them is not an unreasonable heuristic to follow. One example is how it became clear in the last years in nutritional scie…
Going to herbs directly isn't going where no science has been before. At best you're getting a known drug which is poorly dosed and mixed with a shotgun of other chemicals which may be harmful. At worst you've just got a cocktail of potentially harmful (remember, even most of the "good" effects come from poisons the plants produce to keep things from eating them) chemicals with no actual benefit.
Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream
#20However, this quote is an example of shallow thinking that drives me nuts: "Of course, it’s hard not to note that cancer and heart disease are primarily diseases of aging, and life expectancy was so much lower back in the day that a much smaller percentage of the population lived to advanced ages"
Life expectancy FROM BIRTH has risen dramatically, but if you rule out those who died before they reached 5 years old, and rule out violent deaths and/or viral/bacterial plagues, you begin to realize that life expectancy is not much higher today.