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Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

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131–140 of 152 posts

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#131

I wonder how many people are willing to take on the real adventure of living in any of the twenty poorest countries in the world, or twenty most tyrannical countries of the world (there is overlap between the two sets) to try to change those from the inside. When I was in high school, going to a high school that was named after an astronaut just after the first moon landing, I thought it was completely natural to hav…

Isn't this just western paternalism phrased to sound noble? Here we come, with our advanced ways, to fix problems you might not even consider problems.

Paternalism: behavior, by a person, organization or state, which limits some person or group's liberty or autonomy for their own good.

I do not see any evidence of this in the grandparent post.

Edit: Also, I'd like to point out this, on the same front page of Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5390420

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#132
post #49

My biggest fear would not be dying on Mars or on the way to it. My biggest fear would be having the novelty wear off and coming to the realization that I just moved to a trailer park.. on mars.

Valeri Polyakov spent 437 days on the space station "Mir" - an environment at least an order of magnitude more limited than Mars, I'd say. Wikipedia has this information about his mission:

"Polyakov underwent medical assessments before, during, and after the flight. He also underwent two follow-up examinations six months after returning to Earth. When researchers compared the results of these medical exams, it was revealed that although there were no impairments of cognitive functions, Polyakov experienced a clear decline in mood as well as a feeling of increased workload during the first few weeks of spaceflight and return to Earth.[6][7] However, Polyakov's mood stabilized to pre-flight levels between the second and fourteenth month of his mission. It was also revealed that Polyakov did not suffer from any prolonged performance impairments after returning to Earth. In light of these findings, researchers concluded that a stable mood and overall function could be maintained during extended duration spaceflights, such as manned missions to Mars."

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#133
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government's interest in intervention is not "fix things for the residents" but "US interests" (which, during the cold war, essentially just meant opposition to the USSR and some basing rights or access to resources). Admittedly even by that metric, most of the US interventions have been failures. There are a few cases where US/NATO intervention has been sort of helpful. Panama is probably better now that we g…

I am from Balkans, Balkans conflicts were largely influenced and made worse from the outside, I would even say that they would not happen if there were not desire from Germany and other powers to make as much mess as possible. Somehow Balkan conficts never got critical review from journalists and rosy propaganda stayed even to this day. For example in present day Croatia there is only 7% of people who would actually…

"I am from Balkans, Balkans conflicts were largely influenced and made worse from the outside, I would even say that they would not happen if there were not desire from Germany and other powers to make as much mess as possible."

Would you mind saying which country you're from? I ask because I have recently met Serbians who seem like very good and reasonable people, but who have very different views on the conflict from the accepted view in the States and "Western" Europe. In particular, they are very nostalgic for Yugoslavia, and seem to think that yes, some bad things happened during the war, but that no one in particular was more genocidal than anyone else.

"For example in present day Croatia there is only 7% of people who would actually stay to live there if they could go and live somewhere else. Danke Deutschland indeed."

This is very surprising. I would love to see the source. Croatia is the only Balkan state now part of the EU… perhaps they'll find it rather easy to emigrate where they please.

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#134
post #2

I think the most likely way to successfully land on Mars and stay there is to allow for frequent trips back and forth. Obviously I think Musk and SpaceX are taking this approach. Ensure complete and rapid rocket re-usability, make engines that take fuel that Mars mostly provides, and ensure a constant stream of supplies, growth, new people. If your colony is growing, and expanding, and there are frequently (every 2 y…

> But I doubt it would be much riskier than we're currently living our lives here on Earth. You're probably underestimating the risks associated with humans leaving Earth for any considerable period of time. Radiation is the first issue. NASA will not plan a mission that exposes astronauts to higher than a 3% risk of exposure-induced death. Their reports from 2010 based on all the studies done up to that point put th…

There's at least one person who spent over a year in space during one flight, almost two years combined between several flights. And that's not just in Mars gravity, but in total weightlessness. He's alive and seems to be doing fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valeri_Polyakov

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#136
post #55

I wonder how many people are willing to take on the real adventure of living in any of the twenty poorest countries in the world, or twenty most tyrannical countries of the world (there is overlap between the two sets) to try to change those from the inside. When I was in high school, going to a high school that was named after an astronaut just after the first moon landing, I thought it was completely natural to hav…

As a citizen of a so called third-world country, your post is extremely condescending.

As a citizen of a so called third-world country,

Which country are you a citizen of?

You will recall that I didn't use the term "third world" in the first part of my first comment in this thread, but categorized countries in two other categories, at least one of which could definitely include countries that aren't part of the Third World. My use of the term came after an edit to the comment, in which I wrote, "I've asked before here on Hacker News how many of the participants here have ever even lived in (not just visited, but lived in) a third-world country. Not many have."

your post is extremely condescending.

Could you please explain in detail what part of my post you were reading when you reached that conclusion? You see, I have done what I suggested in my post. I have lived in a country where I wasn't born, where it was nearly impossible for me to gain citizenship, where the language(s) spoken were not my native language, where the climate was different from the climate I knew in childhood, where the cuisine was very different, where the level of wealth (then) was low. In that country, when I lived there, secret police assassins killed not only dissidents in that country, but even dissidents from that country who had settled in the United States to live. The ruling political party owned all but one of the newspapers (in that newspaper, it had just a half share) and all of the television stations, and it tightly controlled radio broadcasting and book publishing and motion picture production.

There was a lot of censorship and internal spying there, but local people told me their stories of their aspirations for freedom. I learned which ideals of the ruling party could be turned to embarrass the ruling party as it spied on me and other foreigners while we discussed what we were learning about life there from our local friends. I spoke there in open public speeches (in the official language of that country, which I was there to learn) about how life in the country could be improved for the common people by actually allowing freedom and subjecting the rule of the ruling party to the discipline of a free press and free and fair elections. Those things happen there now. I still have many friends there. What is condescending about desiring that the common people of every country achieve their dreams?

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#137
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I doubt it would be much riskier than we're currently living our lives here on Earth. You're probably underestimating the risks associated with humans leaving Earth for any considerable period of time. Radiation is the first issue. NASA will not plan a mission that exposes astronauts to higher than a 3% risk of exposure-induced death. Their reports from 2010 based on all the studies done up to that point put th…

There's at least one person who spent over a year in space during one flight, almost two years combined between several flights. And that's not just in Mars gravity , but in total weightlessness. He's alive and seems to be doing fine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valeri_Polyakov

Relevant:

Upon landing, Polyakov opted not to be carried the few feet between the Soyuz capsule and a nearby lawn chair, instead walking the short distance. In doing so, he wished to prove that humans could be physically capable of working on the surface of Mars after a long-duration transit phase.

That was 18 years ago ...

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#138
post #49

My biggest fear would not be dying on Mars or on the way to it. My biggest fear would be having the novelty wear off and coming to the realization that I just moved to a trailer park.. on mars.

>My biggest fear would be having the novelty wear off and coming to the realization that I just moved to a trailer park.. on mars.

The problem with trailer parks is not the trailers; it's the other people

and the ownership model. It's a terrible ownership model, really; you usually own a (not actually mobile) manufactured home, but you rent the land.

The screwed up thing is that when the rent goes up in the park, the value of your mobile home drops, making moving even harder.

I'd be happy to live in one of the bay-area mobile home parks if the ownership model of the land was more like the condo ownership model, where the tenants own the common areas, well, in common.

But yeah. "who else is on the trip" would certainly be my first question, but I would imagine that you'd mostly get interesting people.

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#139
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scraping together a suicide team and shooting it roughly in Mars' general direction is not the answer to this problem. I think you misunderstand. While the linked article is brief, the one-way plan isn't to send a ship-full of people with suicide pills, but to supply them for the next 40-80 years from Earth. Because of the hilarities of the rocket equation, it is cheaper to send rocket after rocket full of water, b…

> the one-way plan isn't to send a ship-full of people with suicide pills Maybe I got caught up in the ridiculousness of the article's sensational tone, but even so there is no technical reason to actually plan on never having return flights. This relates directly to your other statement: As I wrote in the parent comment, the presence of water on Mars allows for the production of rocket fuel on site. This ties in to…

While perhaps a return may some day be possible, the point is people are being recruited without that promise. So that, e.g. they realize that if they get sick, or seriously injured, or even just change their mind, there is no way to get back.

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#140
Man. Think of the latency. 8 light minutes. We'd need to bring back uucp, read content offline. Caching would be essential.

Heh. It sounds like a lot of fun, really. I mean, in 2022, I'll be 42; I mean, I'd need more information, (and I might be disqualified just for not being immediately ready to jump, but eh.) but it does sound like an incredible way to spend the second half of my life, even if it ends up making that second half, uh, significantly shorter.

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