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Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

nytimes.com

21–30 of 92 posts

Re: Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

#21

It would be pretty ironic if the Cyprus bailout of 2013 will noted in history books as the event that lead to the collapse of 21st century banking (next up bank runs). Is it probable? No. Is it possible? Maybe.

Here are your options: lose all of your money or lose 10% of your money. What do you choose?

Actually there's a third option: wire all your savings immediately to London.

Re: Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

#22
Taxing those who are saving rather than the ones who are earning more. Call it a case of misaligned incentives. And what about the long term implication on the banking system? How far it will limit the effect of central bank to control inflation now since people will think twice before putting money in bank account?

Would love to see some macroeconomics views on this.

Re: Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

#23
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smug US/UK commentators have now been shouting for 3+ years about how incredibly stupid the EU is, how the Euro will break up in two weeks... But why is the Euro up 16% against the USD and 23.3% against the UK pound over the last 10 years? Why are German bond yields lower than the US bond yields, and why do some stable eurozone countries still possess a triple AAA rating by all credit agencies, in opposition to the U…

> But why is the Euro up 16% against the USD and 23.3% against the UK pound over the last 10 years? You think it is something other than supply and demand? The Fed and BoE can print; The ECB cannot. The result (which is related to printing) you failed to quote: Greek deflation. It's not complicated.

What exactly is your point? If we see market prices as reasonably efficient, the current Euro price shows that the typical "Stupid Eurocrats idiotic mismanagement of the flawed Euro project will lead to European collapse in 2 weeks" simply doesn't have a base in reality.

Individual (small) countries may fail, the system will be fine, and misinformed doomsayers will - as always - end up making fools of themselves.

Re: Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are your options: lose all of your money or lose 10% of your money. What do you choose?

Option 1: Make rational decisions and rely on everybody else being rational Option 2: Panic and make rash decisions

Relying on everybody else being rational is irrational.

Re: Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

#25
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Option 1: Make rational decisions and rely on everybody else being rational Option 2: Panic and make rash decisions

Relying on everybody else being rational is irrational.

I guess that boils it down to one option :)

Re: Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

#26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are your options: lose all of your money or lose 10% of your money. What do you choose?

I also think that there are two clear options: Cyprus gets a bailout under ECB terms or Cyprus doesn't get a bailout and faces insolvency. It seems that the government decided that the first option is preferable to the second one. The second option would almost certainly lead to civil unrest, because it would probably mean that teachers, doctors and other public employees (also pensioners) wouldn't get payed next mon…

There's a large difference between "would" and "might."

Re: Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

#27
post #3

They can't reopen the banks without limiting the amount of money people can withdraw. Thus the death spiral of the entire worldwide financial system begins.

No. We'll see some bank runs mostly in southern countries, but the deposits are power law distributed and thus the financial majority (in sum, not in numbers of accounts) will probably act more rational than members of the frightened, over-emotional masses that withdraw their 5-10K or so. The rational will transfer their accounts to more stable banks, e.g., in Germany and won't put their money under the mattress.

Of course, it's a bit dirty to grab the money from those <100K too, it destroys trust, no question. But the essential players and movers were protected, that's why we created this small injustice (yes small, compared to what's possible).

Re: Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

#28
post #7

"After five years of bailouts financed largely by austerity-weary European taxpayers, wealthy nations like Germany and the Netherlands have decreed that from now on when a bank or country fails, it will be bond investors and perhaps even bank depositors who will be forced to pick up a big share of the bill. " This is so incredibly stupid that it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. They're basically telling everyon…

It's just another example of what's fundamentally wrong with the Euro. If you compare to the US, which is a continent sized country with a lot of diversity, you'll see some big differences. For one, the economic differences between regions in the US aren't nearly as large as in the eurozone. For another, the authority which regulates currency is also in control of taxation and government spending at a federal level,…

" the economic differences between regions in the US aren't nearly as large as in the eurozone"

I think the origin of this and other problems is the lack of a significant EU-wide tax system. The US federal tax system serves as a wealth distribution mechanism (some states like NY and CA pay much more than they receive, and other states like OK receive much more than they pay). A similar system in europe would help the net import nations like Cyprus and greece.

Re: Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

#29
post #14
post #7

"After five years of bailouts financed largely by austerity-weary European taxpayers, wealthy nations like Germany and the Netherlands have decreed that from now on when a bank or country fails, it will be bond investors and perhaps even bank depositors who will be forced to pick up a big share of the bill. " This is so incredibly stupid that it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. They're basically telling everyon…

Smug US/UK commentators have now been shouting for 3+ years about how incredibly stupid the EU is, how the Euro will break up in two weeks... But why is the Euro up 16% against the USD and 23.3% against the UK pound over the last 10 years? Why are German bond yields lower than the US bond yields, and why do some stable eurozone countries still possess a triple AAA rating by all credit agencies, in opposition to the U…

Because the UK and the US are doing what the smaller states in the EU cannot, i.e. devaluing their currency.

If the UK pound falls by X% against most other currencies, this is equivalent (in the long term) to all inhabitants of the UK losing X% of their income.

Re: Cypriot Bailout Sends Shivers Throughout the Euro Zone

#30
post #13

How safe are bank deposits in northern coutries? Germany, uk?

This is only happening because the government of Cyprus doesn't have the money to do it.

As for other countries they're as safe as their "full faith and credit" and any depository insurance that it covers.

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