Nuts. I thought it was a new one.
The Word "Hacker" (2004)
11–20 of 30 posts
Re: The Word "Hacker" (2004)
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
not to cut teeth here, but the 'fag' analogy doesn't really hold up. no matter how you swing it, the term 'hacker' relates to technology (hardware, software, wetware, whatever). in this case, 'fag' has two very different meanings. i'm reminded of the story posted a month (or so) ago on the linux hacker dad whose son received some flack from an ignorant teacher (anyone have a link?).
Perhaps not "hacker", but call something a "hack" and programmers will get a positive connotation, other people will see a negative one.
Splitting these connotations is a tough battle. The "skeptics" movement faced the same issue 30 or so years ago. "Skeptic" was seen as equivalent to "cynic," and to outsiders can still share some of the same emotional attachments.
People thinking about doing this with their startup should bear this in mind.
Re: The Word "Hacker" (2004)
#13There is some interresting things for a non american guy in this article, although i think the way he bounds the fact of being a hacker, and the fact of being american is truely stereotypical, and a little bit sad also seen from outside.
I'd have prefered if he dug the intellectual property thing a bit more.
Re: The Word "Hacker" (2004)
#14"Hacker" may very well be (helpfully) keeping the size of HN down. The last time I sent someone a link to an HN discussion they took one look at the url and phoned to tell me that my email had a virus.
Well, the English language is defined by its usage, and if 99% of English speakers think that a hacker is someone who illegally tampers with computer systems, then that's what it means. I don't know why hackers are always fighting an impossible uphill battle to change public perception of the word rather than just coming up with a new word or phrase that defines the positive aspects of being a hacker. In fact, if done properly, the new phrase could even contain the word "hacker".
Re: The Word "Hacker" (2004)
#15"Hacker" may very well be (helpfully) keeping the size of HN down. The last time I sent someone a link to an HN discussion they took one look at the url and phoned to tell me that my email had a virus.
"Not all hackers are criminals." --me
Re: The Word "Hacker" (2004)
#16"Hacker" may very well be (helpfully) keeping the size of HN down. The last time I sent someone a link to an HN discussion they took one look at the url and phoned to tell me that my email had a virus.
Well, the English language is defined by its usage, and if 99% of English speakers think that a hacker is someone who illegally tampers with computer systems, then that's what it means. I don't know why hackers are always fighting an impossible uphill battle to change public perception of the word rather than just coming up with a new word or phrase that defines the positive aspects of being a hacker. In fact, if don…
> I don't know why hackers are always fighting an impossible uphill battle to change public perception of the word
Probably because it allows easy group identification. Those that use the positive meaning are in the group and those that use the negative meaning are outsiders.
We use many words this way. At the risk of sounding very suburban, witness the difference between Gangsta/Gangster when used by people inside/outside hip-hop culture.
Re: The Word "Hacker" (2004)
#17"Hacker" may very well be (helpfully) keeping the size of HN down. The last time I sent someone a link to an HN discussion they took one look at the url and phoned to tell me that my email had a virus.
Well, the English language is defined by its usage, and if 99% of English speakers think that a hacker is someone who illegally tampers with computer systems, then that's what it means. I don't know why hackers are always fighting an impossible uphill battle to change public perception of the word rather than just coming up with a new word or phrase that defines the positive aspects of being a hacker. In fact, if don…
Alternative version for your last sentence:
"In fact, if done properly, the new phrase could even" be a hack in itself.
Re: The Word "Hacker" (2004)
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
not to cut teeth here, but the 'fag' analogy doesn't really hold up. no matter how you swing it, the term 'hacker' relates to technology (hardware, software, wetware, whatever). in this case, 'fag' has two very different meanings. i'm reminded of the story posted a month (or so) ago on the linux hacker dad whose son received some flack from an ignorant teacher (anyone have a link?).
Perhaps not "hacker", but call something a "hack" and programmers will get a positive connotation, other people will see a negative one.
Well as a programmer, I'd say "a hack" has a mild negative connotation (something hastily thrown together and brittle).
But the terms "to hack" and "hacking" are both positive (to get stuff done).
I have no problem with the term 'hacker', but I don't call myself one. To me it feels the same as calling myself a 'player' or something... like I'm a poseur.
Re: The Word "Hacker" (2004)
#19"Hacker" may very well be (helpfully) keeping the size of HN down. The last time I sent someone a link to an HN discussion they took one look at the url and phoned to tell me that my email had a virus.
Well, the English language is defined by its usage, and if 99% of English speakers think that a hacker is someone who illegally tampers with computer systems, then that's what it means. I don't know why hackers are always fighting an impossible uphill battle to change public perception of the word rather than just coming up with a new word or phrase that defines the positive aspects of being a hacker. In fact, if don…
the English language is defined by its usage
Any language is, but not by simple majorities. In practice there is something like a pagerank for people for language usage, just as there is for most topics.
For example, it could be that 99% of people who use the phrase "begs the question" misuse it. But the 1% who don't are not merely a random 1% of the population. So in disputes about how to use the phrase, those who get it wrong tend to defer to those who get it right. You couldn't say the meaning of the phrase had changed till that stopped happening, because it implies by induction that everyone who misuses the phrase would change their usage if called on it.
Re: The Word "Hacker" (2004)
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
not to cut teeth here, but the 'fag' analogy doesn't really hold up. no matter how you swing it, the term 'hacker' relates to technology (hardware, software, wetware, whatever). in this case, 'fag' has two very different meanings. i'm reminded of the story posted a month (or so) ago on the linux hacker dad whose son received some flack from an ignorant teacher (anyone have a link?).
I disagree. It's all about context. Don't describe yourself as a hacker unless you are around fellow hackers (in the sense used on this site). Otherwise you risk being misinterpreted.
i'd rather educate than be misinterpreted. the term 'hacker' best describes me and what i do. i'm not [just] an engineer. i'm not [just] a designer. i'm a hacker. hacker has a real, defined meaning. the media and popular interpretation be damned.