Google is about to learn a tough lesson • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is about to learn a tough lesson

#231

Post by csense » Sat, Mar 16, 2013, 6:52 PM UTC

kevinalexbrown wrote: post #92

I love the idea of loss-leaders aimed at a specific, influential segment of the entire market. I'd never really thought of services like that. I'm curious what uses there are for this specific type of loss-leader (as in not the Dropbox freemium type). Ethics aside, for instance, Google could have tried to steer conversation among an influential group toward certain topics, by more aggressively suggesting certain Goog…

Microsoft's vulnerable among college students in computer/IT fields, because they have technical knowledge, lots of time on their hands and little money -- a perfect audience for FOSS.

So they offer big academic discounts to try to keep them in the Microsoft ecosystem.

Re: Google is about to learn a tough lesson

#232

Post by csense » Sat, Mar 16, 2013, 6:53 PM UTC

Actually, I'd say it's the audience that learns a tough lesson: If you use an application that requires a server operated by somebody else, there's never a guarantee that the service will operate forever.

This is a compelling argument in favor of DRM-free desktop applications.

Re: Google is about to learn a tough lesson

#233

Post by codesuela » Sat, Mar 16, 2013, 6:59 PM UTC

yuhong wrote: post #39

giblfiz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wait... your saying that because they are discontinuing a product? I'm not suggesting that google is/isn't evil these days, but I would suggest that there is absolutely no moral aspect to discontinuing a feed reader.

Yea, looking at OGinparadise's comment history, OGinparadise is the one who posted that Expedia has lowest prices, despite it's problems (I basically just ignore him now): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4965868

ad hominem much?

Re: Google is about to learn a tough lesson

#234

Post by smsm42 » Sat, Mar 16, 2013, 7:09 PM UTC

jQueryIsAwesome wrote: post #170

smsm42 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, that's exactly why Reader exists - structure and creating personal consumption patterns. Social networking is useless for that, it's like recommending replacing a library with a disco pub. Disco pubs are fine places, lots of fun to be had there, but recommending it as a substitute for the library is crazy. RSS/Reader is completely different use case.

Ok, "personal consumption patterns" now means the authors I want to get updated about. A better analogy would be subscribing to see what an author publishes and subscribing to hear about what everyone is reading; sure, you get a lot of noise but is way more opening and less self-centered. And if you happen to like a lot of authors you get more focus in the ones that are more likely to be of your enjoyment because peo…

I like self-centered. I don't want to read what everyone is reading, I want to read what interests me. If I'd want to know what everyone is reading, I can subscribe to one feed of "what everyone is reading". Why would I rely on "people like me" to be a filter if I have the best option - me - and I already have these filters set up in a way that suits me? I of course do not refuse input of others - I read dozens of blogs. But I want to do it my way, not as a dump which mixes discussion on a national budget with pictures of somebody's half-eaten breakfast.

Re: Google is about to learn a tough lesson

#235

Post by sentenza » Sat, Mar 16, 2013, 8:00 PM UTC

webwanderings wrote: post #18

Makes a lot of sense. As an average Joe, I am preparing to go on Google-free diet come July 1. Firefox, Bing, Outlook. Will find a reader somehow. These are the daily habits which accumulate over time and provide GOOGLE what it needs to survive. So will do everything possible to cut down the ...

Better go yandex than bing. They at least manage to be ahead of google in some niches.

Re: Google is about to learn a tough lesson

#236

Post by philwelch » Sat, Mar 16, 2013, 8:26 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #164

danilocampos wrote: post #28

So, what's going to happen, exactly? "Influencers" who liked Google Reader, now jilted, are going to use their magic influence beam to halt the growth of Android, to erode the dominance of Google in search, and prevent the regulatory approval of self-driving cars? Google has quite a few heavy responsibilities on their hands. They have to manage growth and competition in hugely complex, emerging fields. The lesson the…

I'm reading all these comments about "RSS is dead" and how everybody uses Facebook for it now and I'm completely confused. How you can even use Facebook for this? Facebook is totally useless as a reading list organizer, it is useful for sharing lolcats pictures, but if you need structure and organize known sources of information and keeping track of what you read and what you didn't - Facebook is as useful as a tromb…

It's because people don't read.

Re: Google is about to learn a tough lesson

#237

Post by sdeville » Sat, Mar 16, 2013, 9:46 PM UTC

No one mentioned it in the thread so far. I am working in academia, and RSS is a lifesaver for us, to keep track of new academic papers. I am following around 50 journals, everyone of which publishes a few articles daily, at least. That makes around 1k papers/month. There's no way for us to check every journal website every morning. Twitter or Facebook are totally unsuitable for this. My second constraint is that during my day, I use 2 different computers, a phone and an iPad to check on my RSS feed, depending on where I am and what I do. Reader was providing a flawless solution for the sync. There will be another one soon, that's ok. But according to my twitter stream, many, many people in academia are pissed off about this decision. I posted my feelings here http://wp.me/p1eIvd-d2

Re: Google is about to learn a tough lesson

#238

Post by wutbrodo » Sun, Mar 17, 2013, 1:12 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #164

danilocampos wrote: post #28

So, what's going to happen, exactly? "Influencers" who liked Google Reader, now jilted, are going to use their magic influence beam to halt the growth of Android, to erode the dominance of Google in search, and prevent the regulatory approval of self-driving cars? Google has quite a few heavy responsibilities on their hands. They have to manage growth and competition in hugely complex, emerging fields. The lesson the…

I'm reading all these comments about "RSS is dead" and how everybody uses Facebook for it now and I'm completely confused. How you can even use Facebook for this? Facebook is totally useless as a reading list organizer, it is useful for sharing lolcats pictures, but if you need structure and organize known sources of information and keeping track of what you read and what you didn't - Facebook is as useful as a tromb…

When people say RSS is dead they're not saying its use case has been 100% effectively covered by another product/protocol. What they're saying is that people are using Facebook/Twitter/G+ etc as a replacement in the most basic sense: a feed of content that they can read. Whether you or I think that this is an adequate replacement for RSS is irrelevant because the assertion being made is that enough people think it is a good-enough replacement.

Re: Google is about to learn a tough lesson

#239

Post by wutbrodo » Sun, Mar 17, 2013, 1:25 AM UTC

mratzloff wrote: post #214

IgorPartola wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like self driving cars and Google Glass? Or the cheap/free fiber optic Internet access? Or free Wi-Fi in NYC? I do not think you know what evil means...

You're asserting that providing free Internet access isn't evil? Have you ever once considered how it benefits Google? What possible motivations Google might have to want to know everything users do online? So, here it is: Google does nothing altruistically. They are an ad company, and search is a fundamental component in service to that. Data collection is one fundamental pillar, establishing Google search on every…

This may be the most tinfoil-hat-oriented post I have ever read on HN. To paraphrase: "Google benefits in some way from Google Fiber, so it's EVIL!!!!1"

Surely you can see how utterly insane that is? Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that Google Fiber is 100% altruistic by any means. The position that a large base of Fiber installations would put them in is enviable in a number of ways, involving several of the markets they're involved in. However, completely dismissing the possibility that they saw an opportunity to disrupt the necrotic oligopoly BS we have in the ISP market and jumping straight to "EVIL!!" is beyond ridiculous. Google certainly has done a lot of things in the last few years that belie their early image, but the amount of times that "evil" has been thrown around to describe them is just laughable.

tl;dr: The definition of "not evil" is not "a 100% charitable endeavor with no conceivable benefit".

Re: Google is about to learn a tough lesson

#240

Post by kolev » Sun, Mar 17, 2013, 2:52 AM UTC

I had exactly the same feelings when I heard about the decision. Now I'm planning to stop using Google Voice, which has the same indications of getting killed soon (zero development, no promotion, etc.) I am less excited about Google+ as well - I just cannot tolerate a company that kills features and products like this. This decision from Google is really damaging to them and they are idiots of they don't see it. This "focus" thing applies to small shops. Google is huge. They can afford to keep a product like Google Reader - small shops can't.